Fic progress

[valis2]

As usual, time restraints sharpen my swords, and the ginormous bloated thing I wasn't certain about writing for Snupin has revealed itself to have a simple, tripartate structure at its core that is making me jump for joy. Huzzah!

The daydreaming stage (the longest part of me writing anything) is at its end.

My ratio seems to be 4 parts daydreaming, 1 part writing, for just about anything.

What about you guys? What's your daydream-to-writing ratio?

Comments

[pennswoods.livejournal.com]

At least you eventually get around to writing. :(

I do so little writing...and so little daydreaming.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Is it because you're very busy? Or you're just not that into daydreaming?

[catsintheattic.livejournal.com]

Good to hear that you are on your way to writing your Snupin story! :-)

I hear you on the daydreaming. It's an interesting question!

Daydreaming is very important for me as well. In writing, I can go on daydreaming a lot, but I also know that I have to stop it before I start to form words. Because I will forget the words and only be able to remember that I had them - which is too frustrating. So I try to linger in that dreamlike state before speech, until I have time to actually write or sketch out the raw plot. And for writing, I need a computer. I hate writing on paper - it's just to slow.

With other projects, I daydream as well. It's my way to know where I am heading to. Call it a dream, a vision, something like that.

I'm not sure about the ratio, have never thought about it. Lol. Daydreaming for me is a phase, one which is followed by planning and then execution. One to which I return to when I get stuck or need some energy. Daydreaming helps me to grasp the sense and purpose of what I'm doing.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm scribbling lots of notes now, which is the next step. It's shaping itself very nicely, though, and I'm so glad I decided to sharpen my knives, because it would have been much too unwieldy. I don't really think I needed so many words to express a simple concept. I have to remember that it's about the feelings, and not try to exposition people to death!

I daydream whole scenes, over and over again, in words. In fact, the absinthe chapter in tLS has actually been written at least five times...only once on paper, four times in my head. Completely.

And I have to use a computer, as well. Longhand is okay for notes, but the computer is what I have to use anymore. It's fast enough to just almost catch up with my thoughts.

[catsintheattic.livejournal.com]

written at least five times...only once on paper, four times in my head. Completely.

That's truly amazing. I tend to replay scenes as well, in my head, but never in words. When I want to rewrite a story, I go back from the text into my head. But the moment I use words, I need a computer. I would never be able to memorise all the words inside my head. It's a bit, but not completely different when I write in German. I can keep longer passages of words in my head if they are in German.

On the other hand, I often hear the characters talking. And I have no problems to remember that. So what I actually omit to daydream in words is the narrative, but not the dialogue. Funny, eh?

What I also use paper for is to draw out plot and time lines. Just to keep the overview, or to decide where to cut a chapter from the next one.

Writing is such a wonderful experience, isn't it? Just thinking about it makes me longing for more. *sighs* *goes back to work*

Good luck with your notes taking, and the next steps as well. I'm looking forward to read your story!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

But the moment I use words, I need a computer. I would never be able to memorise all the words inside my head.

Oh, I have a horrible memory. I don't memorize the words at all; I just keep rewriting it in my head. Sometimes I'm a little sad that I've lost the other "versions," but it helps me with the end result.

What I also use paper for is to draw out plot and time lines. Just to keep the overview, or to decide where to cut a chapter from the next one.

Absolutely! Same here. I really like making a physical outline of the structure, which I reference while I write. It's invaluable, because I forget what's happening next, otherwise. The outline for tLS is at...20 pages, I think.

Writing is such a wonderful experience, isn't it? Just thinking about it makes me longing for more.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's the most wonderful thing, and the most frustrating thing, in the world. hee!

I'm looking forward to read your story!

So am I! *laughs* Now, if I can just put together time enough to write it...

[catsintheattic.livejournal.com]

But yet you are able to keep a whole chapter in your head. I still think it's adorable, even if you forget the previous versions. After thinking for a longer time about your answer, I realised that there is a difference for me when I write in German - I do more wording in my head. So there is something to be said about the advantages of writing in your native language. But I could never do that with HP fanfic - the words sound so very wrong in German, I cannot even stand the books in that language.

I don't use paper for the outline, as long as the outline is depending on words. What I do use paper for is for drawing, like energy development, the adjustment of time lines, and such things. I have a story which has about six different time lines and to get them in the right order, and to keep track of the time, I needed an outline with the basic facts. Then I used another version of it to decide how to string the chunks together in the ongoing narrative, because the story is told non-linearly. I hope to post it soon, but I fear it will take me until next year to edit it.

if I can just put together time enough to write it...

Time's a bitch...

I'm really looking forward to December, because my worst hassles will be gone then. Just running courses and preparing new ones, but no emergency preparations and last minute aikido exams. *sighs*

Hugs and happy writing for your Snupin!

&hearts

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Wow, you're really doing some work for that story! Interesting. I can't wait to read it!

And I'm looking forward to December. No more snupin, and then...we get to read all of the lovely fics! Hooray! I'm really geeked about it.

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, stuck on my commute with no notebook.

I tend to write something very different than what I daydreamed. I'm not sure the daydreaming even counts toward my goal of writing. I keep hoping I'm incubating something, but in the end I do most of the actual creation right there in front of the keyboard. If I draft things in writing, I still wind up doing some more of the work while actually typing in the words.

But it's pleasurable to daydream.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's so interesting, how the daydreams often morph into something else! I completely agree. Sometimes they turn into something close; other times, they take a 180.

I agree, though, the actual process is in front of the computer. My notes will provide the skeleton, but the words will provide the flesh.

Daydreaming

[aslowhite.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite cartoons is about this topic. A guy is sitting in his office, clipping his toenails, making paper airplanes, playing tiddlywinks with paper cliips. His editor comes in and says,"Can I talk to you for a minute?" And the first guy explodes, "WHAT??!! Can't you see I'm writing??!!"

In a more literary vein, this from A. S. Byatt ("Still Life"):

"There had to be a time before thought, a woolgathering time where nothing happened, a time of yawning, of wandering eyes and feet, of reluctance to do what would finally become delightful and energetic. Threads of thought had to rise and be gathered and catch on other threads of old thought, from some unused memory store."

Re: Daydreaming

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's great! I love the cartoon idea, it's so true.

And that is a terrific quote! I'm so glad to have it here in the journal so I won't forget it. Thank you!

Re: Daydreaming

[aslowhite.livejournal.com]

See, now doesn't that make you feel less guilty for daydreaming instead of writing? :D

I forget who it was that said, "Every morning I get up, and I have a choice. I could write. Or I could just open my veins."

It's hard hard hard, this writing thing, isn't it?

(btw the cartoon was "Shoe")

[seaislewitch.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... Either I'm lurking on the net or actually writing. The daydreaming stuff comes when I'm on the elliptical, driving (YIKES!) or doing other RL stuff.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I daydream a lot at the dayjob, or during the six hour drives to WI. Music is really helpful sometimes, it pushes the images along in a great way...but sometimes, if I'm really thinking very specific thoughts, I have to turn it off or it'll distract me. In fact, I almost never write with any music playing.

[jen-deben.livejournal.com]

I haven't worked it out rigourously, but I too spend a lot more time day-dreaming or outlining (since I have a brain like a sieve, the day-dreams would fade if I didn't write the important bits down) than actually writing.

That method works for me, but I envy - a little bit - those people who write organically, who just sit down and let it flow, then edit the words into a story later. I think it would be very satisfying to have no trouble getting the initial content. That's the part I struggle with.

Of course, I expect the organic writers envy those of us who don't wind up with reams and reams of good writing that will mostly all have to be dropped in the trash...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my memory is horrid! I have to apologize to people all the time. I've shorted out whole sections of it, I'm afraid.

And I'm with you...I'm definitely not an organic writer. Hence the 4 parts daydream to 1 part writing thing. I really hate "losing" stuff, honestly. ;)

[bronze-ribbons.livejournal.com]

1 part dreaming to 60 parts writing. Because I'm a dork and I don't really find out what I think until it's on the page/screen in front of me. And then I have to revise it (as I go along, which makes me a slooooooooow writer) until I actually like it (or until it's due, whichever comes first).

It's not really a flow. It's more like ketchup stuck in the bloody bottle, and stabbing at the clog with a butter knife sometimes helps but not always. :-p

(Um, yes, somewhat frustrated by my fic at the moment. *wants to smack Snape. Of all the times to clam up!*)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Wow! That's really amazing! I can't even imagine sitting down to a blank screen without having a whole outlined thought process in my head if not on paper.

I usually don't do a huge amount of revising (thank goodness! though perhaps I need to, *grin*), so really, for me, the longest part of any fic is the gestation process. I really have to imagine it all out. In fact, the hardest part is the "Does this make sense?" part, because I will torture myself over every plot point just to make certain it all comes together properly. ;)

[bronze-ribbons.livejournal.com]

Oh, there's usually some start of an outline, and often lists of stray bon mots (especially if I'm in a meeting that doesn't require my full attention, or if I come across a cool phrase in a hymnal, or...). The problem is that once I start writing, the bunny inevitably hops somewhere I didn't expect it to go. (That said, it's also a significant part of the joy for me. "No surprise in the writer, no surprise in the reader" - Robert Frost -- which I do NOT believe to be true for everyone -- nothing about writing IS, in my opinion -- but there's a reason I often joke about my subconscious being smarter than me: once I start writing, it often kicks in stuff that has me going "where the HELL did that -- oh, yeah, okay!" *grin*)

I looked at my original notes for my Snupin Santa a couple of nights ago and cracked up laughing, because it bears almost NO resemblance to the draft I just finished a few minutes ago. (In fact, I may have to write another fic someday that *does* go with that outline-- some fun possibilities I'd completely forgotten about...)

(Forgive the rambliness: this is the equivalent of me doing a Snoopy dance of victory at 3:15 a.m. And good luck with yours!)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, there's usually some start of an outline, and often lists of stray bon mots

I write little bits of scenes on the teeny pieces of white paper I have in my cube at work. This, of course, means that I have a small stack of pieces of paper at my desk here at home, and it also means that once in a great while I have no idea what I meant. hee!

I looked at my original notes for my Snupin Santa a couple of nights ago and cracked up laughing, because it bears almost NO resemblance to the draft I just finished a few minutes ago.

Wow! For me, the outline is fairly inflexible, once I've jotted it down. I do give myself lots of leeway for the little details (and believe me, I come up with too many of those), but the main thrust of the story doesn't usually change. Very interesting!

I'm just working on the outline now, and I hope to actually be writing tonight. *crosses fingers*

[rinsbane.livejournal.com]

Totally depends on the fic. I have fics that spring into my head fully formed. These are among my favorites because the writing of them is equally easy. It's not the easiness that I like so much as the surety of them. These are the fics that I can feel in my bones, that I see rather than think up myself - it's all there, just waiting to be recorded.

I have fics that are the complete opposite, ones that I ponder for months, that taunt me, that slide out of my grasp both in idea and as I try to write them. I've got one of them right now. This is very rare. It's only happened once before. But that one is also one of my favorites because it seeped into my head over the months I thought about it. Not, however, one of the readers' favorites, and I suspect the current one will not be either.

Most fall in between, and I spend more time daydreaming about them than writing. I tend to be a quick writer once I sit down to do it. I'm more blah on these fics. I might like them, but they often slide in and then out of my consciousness once I've posted.

And then there are just the times when I have no time to write. Like now. So out of necessity I ponder fic, a few minutes at a time as I snatch them, rather than writing.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I have fics that jump in my head, and then I dissect them and completely shred them into dust first, before writing them. It's a nasty habit. I just can't stop. I have this really overactive "Does this make sense?" bit of my brain that has to question everything a million times over.

So, on one hand I feel like I lose a lot of spontaneity. On the other hand, I'm usually very satisfied with what I end up writing, in a "making sense" sort of way. (Of course, I always see things I could change, but I have to stop myself and let it go at some point...)

Not, however, one of the readers' favorites, and I suspect the current one will not be either.

It is interesting, isn't it? Some writers can just tell. The fic I'm writing for snupin santa will be what the recipient asked for, but I doubt highly that it will be popular, simply because of the niche it must inhabit. And I've just given up entirely on receiving much feedback for my poetry; people in fandom don't seem to be interested. But I still write it, because that quick burst of creativity feels so good sometimes, you know?

And when I have no time to write---like lately---I have so many ideas that my head feels like it's going to explode. I really want to spend the next three months writing as much as possible, because spring is already booked solid. I don't know how much fic I'll actually finish, but the thought is there, at the least. *crosses fingers*

[rinsbane.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, the dissecting fic problem. I don't do it because of the issues you mention. And if I think about it too much, it will be written in my head and then I see no point in putting it on paper. So if I get a great fic in my head but have no time to write, I put it out of my head until I can write it. Otherwise, I kill it by thought. Heh. I make it sound like I have a lot of self-control. Nope. What really happens is that I hold out for a few days, a week, and then I saw, screw it, I'm writing, and no one's going to stop me! I get to breaking points where the need to write just consumes me, and I'm useless for anything else, lack all concentration. At which point I rationalize it and say, "If I just spend a day writing, get the fic out, then I'll make better use of my time otherwise because I won't be plagued by the need to write." Hah!

The poor niche fics. I know what you mean. You might not get many comments with such a fic, but the comments you do get will be heartfelt and more than the simple "I loved this!" (which is also terribly gratifying, don't get me wrong). In a way, knowing that you snagged a few people wholeheartedly can be more rewarding. I had this experience with my last fic posted. Although I got relatively few comments, esp coming on the heels of a well-received Snarry, I was thrilled with each and every one. The fic meant more to me, was a better fic, so perhaps the comments meant more. Also, my expectations were at that level - I mean, who wants to read about Andromeda Black Tonks? We don't even know her!

I can usually tell, long before I write it, what will be "popular." I know precisely what I would have to write and how I would have to write it to have a "hit," but that's not the kind of fic I like to write. Esp when it comes to Snarry. So I rarely write it. Because even though I post 100% for readers, for them to tell me, "yes!" I really do write for myself (ok, and maybe my adored beta, [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com]). It gives me pleasure. But then, I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with my Snarry fic in general, so it's not a good example. My style of writing isn't well-suited to writing Snarry because there's so much anger there, and for it to ring true, you have to deal with that. But I write quiet, (hopefully!) understated things, or so I flatter myself, which doesn't suit Snarry. Yet the dynamic fascinates me, so I keep coming back to it.

Heavens, I'm running on here! As for your poetry, I suspect you're right about fandom. Was it fandom poetry or poetry unrelated? But your reasons for writing it are golden - they're what keep me writing as well. I personally don't appreciate poetry properly as a class of literature. There are exceptions - 3, as a matter of fact. Neruda, the Song of Solomon, and Sufi poetry as a class. Other than that, it's a rare poem that catches my eye. I suppose I'm hopelessly wedded to the narrative form, alas. Poetry takes more work to read - and perhaps to write. You're packing more into shorter phrases. It deserves more attention.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

The poor niche fics. I know what you mean.

Yeah, I know I'm going to adore writing this, but the audience will be fairly rarefied. Still, I think the recipient will really enjoy it. The fest organizer did a fabulous job of matching us, honestly. The recipient and I think a lot alike about what we like to read and write.

You're talking about the Bone fic, right? I have that on my To Read list, absolutely. I'm a bit behind right now, but I will eventually get to it. I adore myth/folktales/legends, and I'm eagerly awaiting some times so that I can savor it.

I can usually tell, long before I write it, what will be "popular."

Yeah, I often get that vibe as well. I have a few fics on the backburner in my head. One, I'm quite certain will have a few reviews at least, simply because its subject matter is popular. The other is gen, so I'll be lucky for a pat on the head from my loyal readers.

(PS: perverse_idyll totally rocks. And I just totally rec'd a fic you wrote to her, and it turned out she beta'ed it. ha!!)

Snarry really seems to be the pinnacle of writing in HP right now. A lot of great authors are writing HP, and there seems to be a sort of intelligentsia feeling about it...it's very interesting, because it's one of those pairings that a lot of people in fandom don't like.

As for your poetry, I suspect you're right about fandom. Was it fandom poetry or poetry unrelated?

It was fandom poetry. I adore writing it, it's usually a burst of energy, and I'm always happy afterwards. Of everything I've written lately poetry-wise, this Snupin set of haikus (http://community.livejournal.com/lupin_snape/429354.html) stands out the most in my mind. Oh, wait, I did write a Snarry poem (http://community.livejournal.com/lupin_snape/429354.html) as well, I've just remembered. Anyway, I love writing poetry, and I wish there were a more active set of poets in fandom. Oh, and don't think you have to click on the links, btw. ;) I'm a middling poet at best, honestly. It takes a lot of work to be a very good poet, as you say.

I really love Rita Dove...I think she's a brilliant poet, absolutely. And I love Margaret Atwood.

And I need to go to bed. At this point I'm just responding on auto-pilot. sheesh!

[rinsbane.livejournal.com]

Now it's my turn to respond on auto-pilot. It's not even late, just past 9:30 and I've just now stopped working, but I've been working since 7 this morning without more than a shower and eat break, and my brain is fried. I'm going to bed. But this is way more fun, so here I am first! *g*

I shall bookmark your poetry links for a time when I have a brain, thank you very much! I can't say for sure that I'll properly appreciate them, but have no fear that - that would inevitably be a lapse on my end rather than yours.

Snarry: I think that for several years it's been the second most popular pairing out there. Not really a new thing. I don't have an OTP, but if I were forced to pick one, that'd be it. I've been reading it for several years, and given a choice between two equally good authors, one writing a Snarry and one not, I'd start with the Snarry. But good writing rather than any one pairing is the key for me - I don't really understand people who only read one pairing. It's about the writing, so I'll read anything well-written.

Thank you for the rec, even to my beta! That made me laugh. It really does warm my heart to know that.

And yes, I was referring to the Bone fic. My Romi. I had to spend a bit of time getting to know her, but I did know her by the time I started writing, and it was a very easy fic to write once I started. I could see each scene as I came to it. No hurry to read, esp with Smutmas and other fests coming up. (yay!) Should you ever look at that fic, enjoy.

Apologies for the schizophrenic feel to this note. I'm off to bed. Sweet dreams!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Am completely fried right now, but will attempt a comment...

The poetry was just a thought, don't worry about it. ;)

The Bone fic is totally on my list of THINGS I MUST READ OMG HELLS YES. So I will get to it very soon, after the "lockdown" of the rest of the week so that I can finish the snupin santa fic.

I sometimes enjoy Snarry...and sometimes not. I'm really only into adult!Harry Snarry, especially post!war.

Blargh. Must go to bed myself. *hugs*

[gypsyjolie.livejournal.com]

SNUPIN??

I am speechless.

(Though I'd really like to read the story once it is birthed.)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Dude, have you not seen this (http://valis2.livejournal.com/206146.html)? Granted, preslash, but still. ;) And you must not have seen my Smutmas fic last year...*grins*

Am just about finishing the daydreaming portion...have viewed the...er...research materials (not smutty, heh) and am hoping to get to the introduction, at the very least, tonight.

[gypsyjolie.livejournal.com]

What does your Lupin look like? Is your Snape Alan Rickman in your head?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

My Lupin and Snape look very much like what undunoops draws, and also rexluscus. They're men, with a bit of wear and tear, and canon. I like Snape with greasy hair, and yellowish skin, and I like Lupin with grey in his hair and a bit of a worn look.

I like Rickman in the movies, oh yes, but I wouldn't say that he's actually the image of Snape in my head. ;)

A listing of some of my fave Snape drawings (http://www.livejournal.com/users/valis2/110871.html)

[lampblack.livejournal.com]

For me it's angst and procrastination to drawing ratio. Weeks of worrying and putting off to a night or two of working on the piece.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm always intrigued by people who draw. (I can't even do smiley faces, honestly.) And it's so interesting that you have the same sort of brewing when you draw, as opposed to writing! Interesting indeed.

daydreaming

[lindahoyland.livejournal.com]

I fear I daydream about what to write far,far more than I do any writing!

Re: daydreaming

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hahaha!! I am right there with you, no doubt.