The adult, as written by the teenager

[valis2]

I'm always fascinated by fics written by teenagers that portray adults. Certainly there are many teen writers with a lot of skill who draw convincing portraits of adults. But then there's that wish fulfillment fantasy writing--a teen writing about herself as an adult, or what she imagines would be a "cool" life as an adult.

Ages ago, I read a story (HP story) by a teen whose protagonist drove an "old" car; worked as a bartender--but was so good at is she only had to work three days a month; kept only the money she needed to live on and donated the rest (retirement? huh?); wore clothing/makeup that wasn't so great, but anyone who looked at her knew she would be gorgeous if she spent a moment on it; could speak Russian fluently; had lots of dangerous enemies; had an apartment with some sort of homemade security system; and didn't bother with a man because she didn't need one. There are a lot of details I've forgotten by this point, but you get the picture.

On the surface, it sounds intriguing, but as written it was choppy and odd, which I'm sure was due mostly to the writer's inexperience. What is special about it is the adult trappings the teen has provided, and how she's imagined this character.

The ideals of childhood, let loose in a fic; it's pretty thrilling to imagine what it would be like to live on your own terms. To do what you want, exactly how you want to. It's a common theme in teen fics, I would say; I've read several versions of stories like this, and they're all very into world-building--no, I should call it adult-building, honestly. All of them want to create the adult they'd like to be, and they do it in style. It's fascinating to see the ideal adult that they build, and how they picture the life this ideal adult will lead.

Certainly pop culture plays into all of this--so many kids create Ninja/Assassin/Secret Agent fantasies, or tie in the age-old fantasy of These Aren't Really My Parents--My Real Parents Are Voldemort And Galadriel, or any number of movie/book/TV/you name it images. But the biggest source is imagination, fueled by the culture they've experienced.

I mean, eventually RL just squashes a lot of this, or, if she continues, forces her to be a lot more reasonable about things. Having a horse that can speak is one thing; having a horse that can speak, create violent sparkling rainbows from beating his wings, and has the wisdom of Buddha and the charisma of James Dean is another thing. At some point I think all developing writers start to cut back on the crazy details and instead try to find more realistic, believable plot elements. I think that one day you look back at your own writing and you can see exactly why you wrote that gorgeous guy into the story as your boyfriend.

That's what interests me--and also, conversely, sometimes turns me off when I read stories like that. When I can see the why of the author poking through, it's jarring. When I see that the writer really wants a Ducati motorbike, so the main character zips around on one in Seattle as his main transportation and never seems to have raingear, I can see the why. When I see that the writer has made Harry Potter into a girl so that she can hang out with her OFC and giggle over their latest Hot Topic gear, I can see the why.

It's when I can't see the why that I really get into a story--when I'm so into the believability of the scenario, the delicious depth and breadth of a fic, that it almost has an occluding effect on the writer's personality--that I'm most impressed. When the whys disappear and all that's left is story and breathing characters--that's when I squee and clap my hands as I read.

It's difficult to do this, though. I have my own agenda, and my own thoughts and hopes. Don't you always want to play a little bit? I always want to stick scenes in where the characters are pushed into something I've always wanted to do, or when I am tempted to give them a cool car or a poetry gig.

I think it comes down to either resisting the urge, or doing it--but doing it well, and plausibly. Plausible has become my keyword over the last four years in fandom. But plausibility changes from person to person--some people will believe a giant radioactive lizard is wrecking Tokyo, while others won't believe a diner serves lasagna. We all have different limits. Trying to make it plausible to everyone--trying to retain the imagination that fuels the fantasy, but then channel it into the story--that's the challenge.

In the interest of oversharing, here is teen!valis's idea of wish-fulfillment-adult!valis: dark tan & lighter hair (because valis moved to California directly after graduation); two poetry books published (but not selling too terrifically); worked as translator; lost weight because a health club owner liked her poetry and gave her a free membership; rode motorcycle as primary means of transportation; lost her fiancée in tragic accident six months prior to story's beginning; moonlighted in an amazing rock band called Leviathan. lol.

Comments

[gina-r-snape.livejournal.com]

There are moments when I catch myself and think "Hey I'm a grownup. I can have breakfast for dinner if I want to." I fully remember the desire to live on my own terms as a teenager. It must be sweet to read that in fic, though in all honesty I probably wouldn't seek it out.

[snegurochka_lee]

Oh, this is really interesting! I think I tend to read with adult writers as the default in my mind. If I'm unsure about a characterisation of an adult character, I would never think to check if maybe the author is a teen. That's really interesting. *ponders* :)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I remember one night where I didn't feel like eating dinner, so I ate chocolate-covered macadamia nuts instead, lol.

When I find them, it's intriguing to read the setup--but not the story, usually. *grins* Still, it's interesting to extrapolate the writer from the writing.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I usually run into this on fanfictionnet, of course, but sometimes in other places, too. Often the teen "vibe" just flows right out of the fic--you can almost tell just from the trappings they've given the protagonist.

As I get older, I find that I'm more in tune with older protagonists than I was; the old adage about writing for the age you want to be reading your fic (which is mostly for young adult/teen/intermediates) still seems to hold true, even in my thirties, lol.

[tjwritter.livejournal.com]

Very interesting and thought provoking post! I remember when I was a teeenager all my stories took place in California or New York City because I lived in neither and I hated where I lived. All my characters had flaws, but there were never my flaws. They were always popular, or odd-on-purpose. They never had money problems and all of them lived with their father and their mother had either died or left them. (I started writing after my father died and I hated my mother!)

Then there came a time when my life was so miserable that all my fiction was wish fulfillment to ways I wish my life could be and they were all realistic; with a small tweek. But now, my favorite fics are a bit of nostalgia with completely fresh, made up characters who live in places that I have lived, and loved and left...

But as far as fanfiction goes. I'm willing to suspend belief and be caught up in any situation and character development if it is done right! If you can convince me that Harry would wear a dress and go to a sorority party or that Snape is a computer specialist, then I'm there...but you got a lot of work to do!!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's interesting--your progression of protagonists! I have the same thing in my head, a change from fantasy to fantasy to fantasy-flavored reality to near-reality, and it's happened slowly over the years.

I do like a good bit of crack!fic every so often, with Snape raising chickens in the back of a convenience store, but still--there has to be some logic, some sort of internal mechanism that keeps things "believable" for me. It's hard for me to deal with it otherwise.

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

"All my characters had flaws, but there were never my flaws."

Perfect. I love that. Still true for me, to a certain extent: I can write my way out of a problem that I don't have, but not one that I do.

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

I was too timid, as a teenager, to imagine a protagonist who was more than a few years older than I was. I didn't write fan fic then, anyway. I wrote short pieces about emotionally revealing moments that were surprisingly humorless. In other words, serious writing that played to my weaknesses of experience.

I like the way fan fiction encourages us all to write and to write wildly. Teen fan fiction writers rock my world. There's something a lot better about a writing genre that requires you to know the fantasy world of a book, for putting us all on equal footing. Hell, my four year old writes kick-ass fan fiction. Teens do a lot of Mary Sues, and broody 20-somethings, kinky sex and mpreg, and middle-aged ladies in their forties, sad love stories--and four year olds, fics in which characters JUMP! I'm for all of them.

[florahart]

That's what interests me--and also, conversely, sometimes turns me off when I read stories like that. When I can see the why of the author poking through, it's jarring. When I see that the writer really wants a Ducati motorbike, so the main character zips around on one in Seattle as his main transportation and never seems to have raingear, I can see the why. When I see that the writer has made Harry Potter into a girl so that she can hang out with her OFC and giggle over their latest Hot Topic gear, I can see the why.

And see, this is, basically, the difference between a Mary Sue (or a setting or plot that is the noncharacter analog to Mary Sue) and an outlandish OC, you know? Only the way you've put it here, instead of it feeling like an accusation against the author for putting pieces of herself into the story, be the pieces of her real self, or pieces of her want-to-be self, you've stated why it's a problem to the story and the reader. Because really, it's actually fine to self-insert, if the character into whom you are doing so is never the less right in the story, you know? It's not the self-insert that's bad; it's the fit.

[cordelia_v]

Wow. Interesting post. Yes, of course younger writers can use their fic for adult-building. I never would have thought of it, though.

Thought-provoking. As usual, dear. Thanks.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I so love your other adult self.:-)

That is fascinating--I wonder if sometimes the difference is the level of real commitment the author is giving to her fantasy? Like if the "reason" behind it is something trivial like wanting to giggle over stuff at Hot Pocket, then the writing is. But somebody trying to work something out from the heart or really imagine something they want will make it work more. So even stuff like the bartender, it's ridiculous because it's so divorced from reality, but you can see how some of this stuff means something to the person--that they want to have a life of freedom, but also give to charity, they want to be attractive, but they don't want to be vain etc.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I like the way fan fiction encourages us all to write and to write wildly. Teen fan fiction writers rock my world. There's something a lot better about a writing genre that requires you to know the fantasy world of a book, for putting us all on equal footing. Hell, my four year old writes kick-ass fan fiction. Teens do a lot of Mary Sues, and broody 20-somethings, kinky sex and mpreg, and middle-aged ladies in their forties, sad love stories--and four year olds, fics in which characters JUMP! I'm for all of them.

It's such a varied, incredibly diverse set of writings--there's something for everyone. For sheer breadth, I don't think the HP fandom can be compared to any other--it definitely leads, head and shoulders above.

Some stuff I love, some stuff I'm indifferent to--but a split-second search and I can find something else. Pretty crazy, huh?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

We all have to breathe something into our characters, some little bit of ourselves in order to make them convincing, y'know? Smoothing over the why a bit with reason makes a lot of difference, in my eyes, at least. ;)

It's not the self-insert that's bad; it's the fit.

That's a great way to put it. I've always thought of it like this: if the self-insert is the story, and drags everything along with her and warps all reason and logic in order to cater to her, then it's time to look at her more closely.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I always wanted to know what kind of person I'd be, and adult-building was an exercise--though at the time, I'd never have known that, lol.

Now I look back, and I can see how just as we imagine new worlds, we imagine new selves.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I so love your other adult self.

She was a lot of fun, lol. You should read her story--on second thought, no one should read that story, ha!

you can see how some of this stuff means something to the person--that they want to have a life of freedom, but also give to charity, they want to be attractive, but they don't want to be vain etc.

EXACTLY! Sometimes you can extrapolate the girl from her avatar--it's really a unique blueprint to the issues the girl has, or the dreams the girl has. That's what interests me about all of this.

[perverse-idyll.livejournal.com]

That teenage apprenticeship to writing really does help shape how we go forth and navigate the world, doesn't it? Well, to a certain extent. It's like role-playing as a warm-up to adult possibility. It combines one's first rude awakening to the fact that storytelling is work as well as play, with the collision between our limited experience and our dreams. Often, I'd guess, the material's out of the writer's control, projections rooted in personal fantasy, contents under pressure. For many introverted scribblers, it's bound up with not wanting to be themselves. At least it was for me. Adolescence was much like serving a prison term, with public school playing the role of the penitentiary.

I didn't write Mary Sues because my stories were modeled on the fantasy/sci fi I was reading at the time, whose authors were engaged in challenging and deconstructing the genre from within. Still, my preoccupations showed up in the kinds of characters I chose to write, for example, the non-fandom version of Mary Sue, the classic protagonist-with-special-powers so beloved of fantasy, destined to save the universe or assume the crown. *points finger* Harry Potter, exactly. Only I was more concerned with turning these characters inside-out, writing them as losers, unable to save anything except themselves and more isolated than exalted by their gifts. Sometimes they were downright destructive, because having a lot of power entails consequences, no matter what.

Pessimistic, and yeah, I was definitely rehearsing for being disappointed in the adult world. I was a cautious little sod. My insight didn't live up to my ambitions, of course. That's another teen thing, to bite off more than you can chew. But there's more than one way to build a model of adulthood, and I'd say I was pleading the case for those who weren't cut out to be special, those who were more comfortable in the margins than in the spotlight. Which is almost the flip side of the Mary Sue scenario.

That reminds me, there are also teens out there writing totally over-the-top, swaggering, violent, flippant fics, which I guess you could dub gangsta!Mary Sue. They're melodramatic and full of attitude, with a fondness for bitching and swearing and beating each other up. This, too, is a projection of sorts, a way of glamorizing or sexualizing a Fight Club vision of life, with Mary Sue being the sleaziest, rudest, and most hard-assed of them all.

The shaping of our minds and our writing addictions never fails to intrigue me. And there are very young writers in fandom who blow me away with their sophisticated technique and their adult perspective. Very interesting post, m'dear.

[catsintheattic.livejournal.com]

This is so true!

I wrote my first story when I was nine, about a couple of mice training for the football season. My star mice were a male mouse, Willibald, and his sister, Karlinchen. Now, the story was titled "1:0 for Willibald", but I couldn't, really couldn't let him shoot this goal without the help of his sister. In the end, I went for a double-head-shot - how crazy is that?

So even at the tender age of nine, I was a feminist at heart. *g*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hee--I feel like I should delete my entry and just put up your comment instead, lol. The first paragraph alone is worth an entry.

I didn't write Mary Sues because my stories were modeled on the fantasy/sci fi I was reading at the time, whose authors were engaged in challenging and deconstructing the genre from within.

Interesting--for so many of us, the Mary Sue is a rite of passage, something we go through--and sometimes never grow out of.

Only I was more concerned with turning these characters inside-out, writing them as losers, unable to save anything except themselves and more isolated than exalted by their gifts. Sometimes they were downright destructive, because having a lot of power entails consequences, no matter what.

Well, that definitely is the opposite of most Mary Sues--their powers almost never have consequences, at least negative ones that impact them. And the "loser" Sue is a rare version of a Mary Sue, usually completely consumed by her loserness--I'm not getting that vibe from this, though. Often, a loser Sue originates from someone trying to avoid writing a Sue.

I'd say I was pleading the case for those who weren't cut out to be special, those who were more comfortable in the margins than in the spotlight. Which is almost the flip side of the Mary Sue scenario.

Only too true. I was really into the margins, as well, and never thought I would truly be the star of anything.

That reminds me, there are also teens out there writing totally over-the-top, swaggering, violent, flippant fics, which I guess you could dub gangsta!Mary Sue...This, too, is a projection of sorts, a way of glamorizing or sexualizing a Fight Club vision of life, with Mary Sue being the sleaziest, rudest, and most hard-assed of them all.

Oh, hells yes! I could come up with a whole list of different types of Mary Sues--they're infinite in their variety. There are subgenres and all sorts of different manifestations. I've definitely seen gangsta!Sue come into Hogwarts, wear her own special slut!wear, smoke, drink, bitch out McGonagall, and come very close to pimp!slapping Snape. She's an impressive one, all right.

The shaping of our minds and our writing addictions never fails to intrigue me.

Oh, same here! I'm always into Poets & Writers mag, especially when they do interviews. I love hearing how writers become writers, y'know?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Aw, so cute! And good job Karlinchen! We need more female mice hoop stars. *grins*

[artystone.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately that works both ways. Like when you try to toss something into a trashcan and miss. I always think, "no one else is gonna pick that up after me."

[sigune.livejournal.com]

Oh, very interesting subject!

It's funny to think of how my writing changed... My Mary Sues would always be blond, beautiful, aristocratic, melancholy, and deeply loved by a dashing hero :P. I wanted them to be as unlike myself as they could possibly get... They would be 24, which I thought then was a sort of miraculous age *g*. Somehow Mary Sue would also be the Voice of Reason to rein in the Charmingly Impetuous Love Interest - not very romantic, that ;-).

As a teenager I used to hate realism, and wrote fantasy in which as many things as possible were totally fantastic; now I try to reduce the fantastic as much as I can, even when writing about the Potterverse. That's so odd. For some reason I seem to want to ground even fantasy firmly in reality, though my writing is still sort of escapist. (I couldn't bear to write about myself, for example, or about perfectly ordinary lives.)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

It's funny to think of how my writing changed... My Mary Sues would always be blond, beautiful, aristocratic, melancholy, and deeply loved by a dashing hero :P. I wanted them to be as unlike myself as they could possibly get...

hee! In the beginning, mine had wings and claws and fangs, lol.

Only later did they start to grow a little more...average. They were always smart and always knew in advance what was going to happen, and had a group of friends that were super loyal and fun to be with, like a superhero team, almost.

As a teenager I used to hate realism, and wrote fantasy in which as many things as possible were totally fantastic; now I try to reduce the fantastic as much as I can, even when writing about the Potterverse. That's so odd. For some reason I seem to want to ground even fantasy firmly in reality, though my writing is still sort of escapist. (I couldn't bear to write about myself, for example, or about perfectly ordinary lives.)

I like writing all over the place--real, fantasy, anything. But what I most enjoy is fantasy or reality. I love fantasy because of the world-building aspect, and I love reality (especially poetry) because it usually explicates the human condition in some profound manner.

Honestly, I'd love to read your writing about yourself! You're such an interesting person, an original. Your life is fascinating, even if you don't think so! ;)

[todayiamadaisy]

I used to read those "is my OC a Mary Sue?" threads on various fora, until they made me so angry I had to stop. Some characters were just Princess Sparkle who was a Flying Unicorn animagus. Some of the others, though, were perfectly fine characters with a few personalised quirks, but the posters would rip them to shreds. And that never seemed fair, because characters need, well, character. The trick is to make it seem like loving, say, Justin Timberlake comes from within the character, not just something that's been pasted on by the author.

Oh, and my wish-fulfillment-adult!daisy was always a space pirate. What sort of dystopian adult world was I building? :-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I was totally into the forum at Fic Alley where people checked their OC--and you're totally right, some of them were outright Sues, some sounded like Sues, and some didn't seem like Sues--but the proof is always in the writing with something like that.

What always used to make me wince is when they'd include "blood type" and "favorite color"--as if these things really make a huge difference. Templates are okay, to a point. Eventually you really need to read it to know if it's a Sue--and even then, it's just your opinion, y'know?

I adore space pirates--I played a video game once where you flew around on a pirate ship and visited far off lands with all sorts of different cultures--I loved that so much.

Clearly you wanted an old-fashioned future, m'dear!

[privatemaladict.livejournal.com]

I'm sort of fascinated by the wish-fulfillment stuff that teeangers do (it's when the writer is thirty that I begin to worry). I guess it's because I was into it in a huge way when I was a kid - I don't know if you saw this post? My friend and I pretty much imagined ourselves as we wanted to be - popular, sexy, dating hot guys - and eventually having a hapy marriage involving ridiculous amounts of mind-blowing sex. It's probably a good thing I didn't write fanfic at that age, because it would've been absolutely awful! Oh, i also think we imagined ourselves in a rock band, and later, when we became more sensible, running a record label.

I have my own agenda, and my own thoughts and hopes. Don't you always want to play a little bit? I think every writer has his or her own agenda. We write the stories we find interesting, or that we think are important to write. I don't think it's possible to write well without inserting something of yourself into the story - I mean, what would be the point? The problems only start when you isert so much of yourself that the story itself gets lost. I find that stories have a momentum of their own - the trick is achieving the balance between what I want the story to say, and what the story wants me to say.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, I totally saw that post--it amazes me that you found someone else willing to sink into that world with you. I wish I had known someone else who would have, lol.

I find that stories have a momentum of their own - the trick is achieving the balance between what I want the story to say, and what the story wants me to say.

Oh, that's a great though, and so true! I just have trouble listening, ha!

Balancing is key, though. You have to breathe enough in for it to be believable, but not so much that your Freudian Slip shows, y'know? ;)

[marginaliana]

Oooh, interesting. Wasn't there a presentation at one of the HP conferences about how Mary Sues are an important part of young girls' emotional development and how playing out adult scenarios is a huge part of what we do as kids? I think I remember seeing something along those lines before.

I remember my self-inserts from when I was young and really into Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series - "Jessa" (got to get that twee name variation in there, hahaha!) was never one of the heroes, but always one of those people who was essential to the heroes along their way. It's interesting to me that I think that attitude about my role in life has pretty much carried over into my adulthood. Hmmm.

[gina-r-snape.livejournal.com]

True. But no one is going to yell at you for not picking it up, either. ;-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I was so totally into Valdemar while a teen--I adored the books, absolutely adored them. I loved the arrows trilogy.

I did that too--I was always the helpful person behind the scenes whenever I inserted myself into fantasy books. I think I was a ranger in LotR, for example--I went along with the Fellowship but I wasn't part of it.