Forest analogy

[valis2]

I've been thinking about my last entry, and I think I've come up with a good analogy.

Let's say you're writing about a forest. Now, this is just a rough estimate, but

70% of your readers probably have spent little to moderate time in forests.
20% of your readers might never have spent time in forests.
10% of your readers will be forest rangers.

So then it comes down to...how much effort am I going to make for the forest rangers? That level of research can be quite intense for the non-forest ranger, y'know? And sometimes making the fic good for the forest ranger can ruin some of the plot or punch holes in the timeline. There's also the fact that this is a nice way to escape, and I don't want to get into identifying the Latin names of the insect crawling across the trail; sometimes you just want to call a bug a bug and be done with it.

Comments

[lady-branwyn.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you are talking about. When I am writing a fight scene, I always run it past my resident fight scene choreographer, Lord Branwyn. In his younger days, he excelled at tournament fighting in the SCA, kendo, and tae kwon do. He is an avid student of military strategy and tactics. Though I am always grateful for his advice, sometimes I ignore it. There are times when creating a certain effect in the story is more important than making it realistic.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have a feeling that if I spend too much time obsessing over teeny details, I might just go crazy--and take the reader with me!

I need to put things in perspective. I know what I like as a h/c reader, and I know what people write and read in h/c, and I have to think of it that way--that people get a little grossed out if it gets too realistic, know what I mean?

[todayiamadaisy]

And that's when you'll get a forest ranger spluttering about ordinance 48-9857B forbidding groups of people gathering in the forest for purposes defined in Appendix 5692A or some such, and everyone else will be like, dude, just go with the story. So yes, you need as much detail as you need and no more.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I need to remember the audience, and how everybody really hates ordinance 48-9857B.

hee!

[bronze-ribbons.livejournal.com]

Amen!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Now to put this into practice...because you know how I am, I'm still going to obsess over all of it.

Once I've seen the man behind the wizard, I can't forget about him, y'know? So when I find out that a detail is ridiculous, then I get all freaked out about using it. But sometimes a tiny bit of ridiculous is better than a whole lot of absolutely realistic.

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

Write to the accuracy of Forest Rangers, but no one wants to read an info dump at any level.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Only too true. I hate info dumps. Just read a S&H fic where the entire first three pages were a character's remembrance of the last year. ugh.

[tudorpot.livejournal.com]

Forest Ranger here. It's hard when you are asked to give your 'expert' opinion to know what is crucial to the story. If you want your tree to grow upside down and the forest ranger tells you nope, that's probably reasonable advice from the expert. However, if you want your Palm tree to grow a little north of the usual places that Palm trees normally grow, then it's not correct, but it won't be too far from reality.
I must say most TV and books about medical stuff are very hard for me to watch as the errors are just so egregious. In real life, doctors don't do much direct patient care, but you wouldn't know that if you took House as your guide.
From my POV, if a story or show gets the medical stuff wrong, I question, are they getting the police stuff right? If aspects of the story kick me out of the realm of the story because they jar me, then the story fails. Palm trees are unlikely to cause me to leave the story, but upside down ones will.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Forest Ranger here. It's hard when you are asked to give your 'expert' opinion to know what is crucial to the story. If you want your tree to grow upside down and the forest ranger tells you nope, that's probably reasonable advice from the expert. However, if you want your Palm tree to grow a little north of the usual places that Palm trees normally grow, then it's not correct, but it won't be too far from reality.

;) I should have mentioned that Husband was the Forest Ranger as well for an entirely different part of the story. As far as your Forest Ranger suggestions, I've worked hard on changing the story based on your suggestions. His, however, would completely change the entire shape of the story, and would be difficult to incorporate; hence, my issue. We went back and forth about it for an hour, but his changes just aren't something I can handle; they're too drastic. (It's about the villain and MO and how it was changed drastically for the latest victim; he maintains that villains of that type don't change their MO. Which means that the fic is messed up as far as criminal behavior, but I don't think I want to 'fix' it in that way.)

I must say most TV and books about medical stuff are very hard for me to watch as the errors are just so egregious. In real life, doctors don't do much direct patient care, but you wouldn't know that if you took House as your guide.
From my POV, if a story or show gets the medical stuff wrong, I question, are they getting the police stuff right? If aspects of the story kick me out of the realm of the story because they jar me, then the story fails. Palm trees are unlikely to cause me to leave the story, but upside down ones will.

Yep, that makes lots of sense. I watch shows and giggle about obvious errors, but there are a lot of things out there that have more errors that are only visible to those with that special Forest Ranger training. ;)

[tudorpot.livejournal.com]

Just so you know- I don't take it personally,just sharing my 2 cents. There has to be a balance between art and reality- finding that is your job.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Awesome, thanks! Besides, the proof is in the pudding--nearly all of your advice has been taken and I will definitely credit, and point out that any mistakes remaining are my own.

Thank you again!!

[tudorpot.livejournal.com]

It was interesting seeing the fic in it's early stages. I've done Canadian picking previously, now a medipick. Always glad to help.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

If you're up for it, I could definitely use your help on some fics in the future. Seriously--this is absolutely invaluable!

[tjwritter.livejournal.com]

Yes! And remember, like I think tudorpot is saying...it's sometimes not what you tell or don't tell, but what you get wrong. It's better to skim over a subject then get it wrong.

When I wrote a story about a logger (wow, same metaphor and everything!) I asked my mom's husband, who was one, all about it...then I used what the story needed. Basically, I threw in some of the correct terms for machinary and had all the other loggers who read the story (hey, I grew up in Washington state...I know a lot of loggers...who read!) saying that I NAILED it!

So, I guess what I'm trying to say...is...if you're going to give details, make them the RIGHT details and only what we NEED to believe the story.

Or something...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

It's better to skim over a subject then get it wrong.

That's true, though sometimes the wrong is noticeable only to a few people, y'know?

There's this Riptide episode where one of the boats gets destroyed, and it's absolutely hilarious to me because I've piloted speedboats before and there is no way that it could happen in this manner. But I've mentioned it to others and they had no idea that there was anything wrong with it. It just depends on whether the person reading it is a Forest Ranger for that particular area or not.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say...is...if you're going to give details, make them the RIGHT details and only what we NEED to believe the story.

My personal philosophy is that I like to absorb a bunch of information, and then just use a few key details to lay it out. And a heavy coat of gloss. Which is exactly what you're saying.

Having a Forest Ranger for that particular area look at the writing helps immeasurably, too. *nodnod* But when Husband--er, the Forest Ranger points out something you knew from the start was an issue, then you wonder if it really will be an issue for everyone else or not.

And then I think...well, I like the plot as is, and I really want to write it this way, and maybe a heavy coat of gloss will work.

And only four people will read it anyway, and I doubt any of them will care greatly that it's not 100% perfect in its depiction of the FBI and serial killers. I mean, seriously. We want hot guys getting it on.

[gypsyjolie.livejournal.com]

It also comes down to the character that you are writing... an average person may only know it's a bug, not what actual kind of bug it is, etc. No Mary Sue magical knowledge!!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Very true, m'friend. *giant hugs*

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

Hee. dig the Forest Ranger analogy. Good previous comment on "not everyone will know what kind of bug it is, anyway" - reminds me of reading a thing about how Harry probably doesn't know anything about antique furniture, so don't bother describing it, pretty much.

Months later, I read one something like, "Harry didn't know much about furniture, but it looked pretty old", and I smiled. ;p

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, exactly! I owe it to the reader to be realistic, definitely, and keep a level of plausibility going, but I think that I get waaaay too involved with high levels of detail that nobody but me cares about. *nodnod*