Thinking about clichés...

[valis2]

With junediamanti's new comm potter_cliche I've seen a lot of people bring up a lot of clichés.

It's interesting that many of the clichés in other pairings are completely new to me, and, as a result, I simply read them in befuddlement. Yet SS/adult clichés cause me to wince sometimes.

I was just posting a comment in someone else's LJ about the subject and realized that, as much as a poorly written fic riddled with clichés bothers me, the problem lies more with the fact that it is poorly written. I have seen some chocoholic!Remus fics, for example, that were quite steamy and well-written. When several inexperienced writers take on chocolate-abusing!Remus, though, the result is a profound "Ugh!"

A good writer can take the most stilted and conventional cliché and turn it into something thought-provoking and moving.

Clichés are clichés because the idea resonated with so many people.

Yeah, I get a bit peeved at all of the Severus-has-swallowed-a-thesaurus fics, but sometimes the writing is so good that I just move past the cliché to the story itself.

So this is what I've discovered about myself today: I like to scoff at clichés, and I still check out pottersues. But I can't wholly condemn poor writing, clichés, or inexperienced writing. At least they're writing. I just hope I find the back button quickly enough. Brought to you by cynical, yet not quite heartless letter C.

I hope this all made sense. I'm so tired.
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Tomorrow will be the day of much driving (14 hours) and hoping for time to obey all of my commands and compress itself. I'm really mad at myself for not thinking this through more fully. Then again, my schedule isn't set by myself alone, but by all of the appointments in my book, so I usually have to blend "how can I make this work" with "how can I best give the appointment what it wants". A tricky balancing act.
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for aerynstales
Brew glory with me!
Potions master, late thirties, desires witch with patience, drive, and basic knowledge of brewing. No hags. Must own cauldron and set of scales. No foolish wand-waving. Must be willing to relocate to dungeons. Send picture of cauldron to Hogwarts, care of S. Snape.
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Comments

[aerynstales.livejournal.com]

You know...I closed the chat window without copying what I wrote! Ugh...

Um...Wanted: Woman who likes dark places, long late night walks through the castle hunting for miscreant youths, and open to new and interesting smells. Love of grease a must. Makeover witches need not apply.

Does that sound right?

Wanted: Loves a man with a great sense of humour and is positively charming! Sees beyond the physical and is not height focused. Reply to Levisoa 678.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

This would be a really fun challenge for quirky, don't you think?

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. Even the stuff that I hate CAN be done believably and well in the right person's hand. I can deal with a cliche, I've written them myself. However, it is good to avoid them when you're aware of it.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

A good writer can breathe new life even into the worst of clichés...

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

You are absolutely right. Even the worst cliche can work if it's well written into a believable story. Well maybe not the worst--there's no way anyone will ever write convincingly (to me) about MPREG--but some of the most common "oopsies" can work. I've probably read the least amount of fics, at least all the way through, than most people posting but I've seen examples of many of the cliches mentioned that have managed to fit into a good compelling story just fine. The problem seems to arise when the whole "work" from beginning to end is a trainwreck. For example, Abused!Harry can't just be locked in the cupboard and made to miss meals, he has to be beaten, tortured and (I still can't get past this one) struck by lightning.
WTF?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

"Struck by lightning"? hahaha!! Or Snape has to rescue him from the Dursleys and visit his peevish wrath upon them when he realizes the breadth of their mistreatment of Harry...

Good writing can redeem a lot, you're right.

[aramintasnape.livejournal.com]

I love that ad! Send picture of cauldron to Hogwarts *giggle*

Damn, why is he only interested in the cauldron???????? ;)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm certain he wouldn't mind if you tack on a few pics of yourself too...though perhaps not a picture of you today...he might guess that you have...er...prior commitments! *giggle*

[aramintasnape.livejournal.com]

LOL! *searches for old pre-bump pics*

[zoepaleologa.livejournal.com]

One of the reasons I made it a rule (well the only rule really) was so that folks did not come along and fic bash. Because I've read stuff that has the cliches and is still good.

Generally, there is stuff with cliche, and then you realise, oh, hang on, this is actually a classic.

There are also stories where there a number of hokey cliches, but somehow the story pulls you along, anyhow.

I'd had the idea for a cliche comm for some time, but feared endless wank of the sort you get on all the badfic groups. I also do not want to see writers I know and like being bashed. Or in fact, even writers I do not know, or writers I do dislike, for that matter. Then the idea, blindingly simple really, was that if I banned linking and specific fic mention, that was the way round it. It's also been amusing to see stuff pointed at, and thinking, "Oh, sodding hell, I did that." Because it is not fic or author specific, I find I can be a lot more amused about it, than if someone had posted, "June Diamanti wrote X, and it sucks rocks!" I hope others feel the same.

Yes. There are cliches out there that make me wince when I see them. But I'd rather have a laugh about the cliche than poke fun at the author who wrote them. This way I get to vent about the things I have to see in my other fandom duties (another bloody apprenticeship, another MLC fic, for example) without incurring fangirl wrath of "Azazello is being all mean, again" type.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

It is a lot easier (and less wank-prone) to deal with general statements about fics than specific statements about specific fics. I'm glad you did it this way, because it will prevent so much controversy.

I'm so happy that you have your own comm!

[cantatrix05.livejournal.com]

Cliches and stereotypes generally get started because they have something of the truth (or perceived truth) in them. If a writer can somehow use that truth, the element involved isn't really a cliche any more, but part of the character. But most of the time, the cliche element is just stuck on the story (or character) like a Band-aid and looks just as obvious.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

When a writer just grabs the cliché, and doesn't really take the time to craft it into something interesting and fresh, the writing really suffers, I think.