More HBP thoughts.

[valis2]

Okay, in Spinner's End no one ever says what, exactly, Snape is agreeing to do. We don't know that he's supposed to kill Ddore. Snape might not even know. He does say one thing that is somewhat damning:

"He intends me to do it in the end, I think. But he is determined that Draco should try first. You see, in the unlikely event that Draco succeeds, I shall be able to remain at Hogwarts a little longer, fulfilling my useful role as spy." [Snape]

Either:

a) He knows what the job is, and he is the Dark Lord's through and through. He is right, after all, that Draco is supposed to "try first".

or

b) He has no idea what they're talking about (to whom would he report, after all, in his "useful role as spy", if they kill Ddore?), but he is desperately trying to figure it out, which leads to:

b1) He tells Ddore, who figures it out, and they eventually plan it all together;

or

b2) He is trying to figure it out from Draco, who is practising Occlumency and thwarting him, and he doesn't really figure it out until he's on the Astronomy Tower, and then it's too late, and he hates that he's been put into this position, and the revulsion is because he is, well, upset that this is the job, and when Ddore says "Please" he realizes that he has to do it. ETA: In the overheard conversation between Draco & Severus, Severus mentions that Draco has not come to his office despite many requests, AND Severus even point blank asks him "What are your plans?" and "Confide in me" and such, and never mentions the job itself, though that could be because of Ddore's presence in the castle.

Also, the question that has been driving me mad:

It takes two people to go to the island in Riddle's cave; one person to drink the stuff and die, and one person to spirit the Horcrux away. If RAB stands for Regulus, then WHO WENT WITH HIM? Because how did he get the locket away from the cave otherwise? And is this how Regulus died, or did he sacrifice someone else to get his hands on the Horcrux and stash the fake locket? And how did he get the basin full again? Snape might work somehow in this scenario, though I'm not certain of the timing.

I knew as soon as Mundungus Fletcher was mentioned as stealing Grimmauld valuables that it would be relevant, and sure enough, there is a mention of a heavy gold locket in OotP that no one can open, and what do you want to bet that Dung hocked it already (if RAB is Regulus) and it'll be difficult to get it back.

Argh!

Track 1? or Track 3?

ETA: And straussmonster said it even better here about the possibility that Harry is a horcrux, himself, or just a botched attempt at one that backfired.

Comments

[scatteredlogic.livejournal.com]

And how did he get the basin full again?

That's what caused me to pause. How did the basin get full again? Either it refills itself with that potion, (which I found unlikely - if you could just magic up potions fully brewed, why aren't they teaching that technique at Hogwarts?) or Voldemort popped back in, shrugged and said, "Hmm, the locket is still here, but the potion is gone. Damn that evaporation." Somehow, I just don't see that last option happening.

I also suspect I'm nitpicking. ;)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm really curious about this too! And I hadn't thought of that...I had a thought of a magically refilling potion, but somehow I don't think that's the case.

Interesting, huh? And I think you're right, V wouldn't have bothered popping in and not checking the locket after the potion was gone...interesting that he's left this horcrux completely unchecked, then.

[elddonnemar.livejournal.com]

This is why I think who ever took the locket was able to do so in a manner different from what Dumbledore used to obtain it. This person knew exactly what the potion was and was able to by pass all of Voldemort's security measures without leaving a trace. Hum...

[mariannelee.livejournal.com]

Or, the quote could indicate exactly what it seems to indicate -- Snape knew exactly what she was talking about, and had already talked to Dumbledore about it. When the part of the vow came where he had to promise to fulfill the mission, he hesitated because he did not want to do it, but went ahead because by that point he and Dumbledore had already discussed it, and he knew that was what the headmaster wanted him to do. Even if he, personally was unhappy about it.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yep, it can be read both ways entirely. He could be hesitating because he has no idea what it is that needs to be done, or he could be hesitating because he did not want to do it.

I don't know...it's gonna be a tough one to think about...

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

I see it as Snape knowing all along exactly what's going on. Add to that the distinct possibility that he previously made an Unbreakable Vow with DD promising to do whatever DD deemed necessary at planning time.
Hence the unbreakable trust.
Hence Phineas' "I should think..." Did Phineas witess this bonding?

The problem with Harry being a horcrux is that we really need to assume VD had completed his soul distribution prior to attempting to do in Harry.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm really wondering how Snape is going to convince Harry of all this when the time comes, too.

And the horcrux...yes, that is a difficulty. I'm not convinced that Harry is a proper horcrux...he's probably the result of a botched attempt. After all, Ddore does say something about how the curse backfiring left some bit of Voldemort within him...

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

the curse backfiring left some bit of Voldemort within him

His bad attitude! LOL
Sorry but he's a mouthy little brat even if he did finally give up the CAPSLOCK of rage.

[effseedee]

And how did he get the basin full again?

There is precedent for magical trap potions refilling - Snape's challenge potions in PS must have refilled, or there would be nothing for Harry to drink to pass through the flames (since Quirrely would've already consumed it all).

[valis2.livejournal.com]

A-ha! Aren't you clever! Excellent point.

Though perhaps there was more than one dose...nope, just reread it, says something about the smallest bottle, with barely enough in it for one swallow.

argh.

[effseedee]

Possibly the bottle had some sort of magical transference thing going - it was linked to a big vat of the stuff somewhere, and when empty the refill spell kicked in? That way there's none of this insta-potion stuff.

[cactus-wren.livejournal.com]

And how did he get the basin full again?

I've been wondering this myself. I suppose he could have taken someone with him under false pretenses and gotten them to drink the potion, or Imperiused someone and made them drink it. But then how did it refill? Another thing I wondered about is why couldn't DD have scooped the potion out with the cup, but instead of drinking it, poured it out on the ground? Would the potion have 'known' somehow that it wasn't drank and just refilled into the basin?

I am still leaning towards the idea that Snape is still double crossing Voldemort and working for the good of the Order, even though it doesn't seem like it. I think there was no other alternative for him than to kill DD, since breaking the Vow would have killed him, and the Deatheaters probably would have then killed DD anyhow. This way Voldemort believes - and Bellatrix & any other doubters - that he is truly on their side, and he can still be working from the inside even though none of the Order would ever believe him again.

Another thing I've been wondering about is : Dumbledore isn't 'really' gone, is he? His portrait now hangs in the office at Hogwarts. He can't come out and do any magic or anything, but he can still verbally interact with people. I read where someone posted that the portraits are just 'ghosts' of their former selves and can't do any thinking on their own. But that's not necessarily true, is it? Phineas makes comments about Harry's attitude & how things were when he was headmaster. In one of the final scenes of HBP, one of the portraits returns from his other portrait at the ministry to report that the Minister is on his way. So he's able to interact with McGonagal and think and see, yes? So couldn't DD do the same sort of thing? And why has Harry never run across a picture of his parents that can speak to him? So many other pictures have done so. Or is it just paintings that can do it and not photographs? Yes, I see I'm babbling aimlessly now and should probably shut up, since I'm off on a subject you didn't even post about.

[elddonnemar.livejournal.com]

This is a very interesting point. The portraits in the headmaster's office probably involve much more magic than random pictures, which don't seem able to speak, as the portraits and paintings do. It would make sense for the portraits to be able to think for themselves in order to help the current headmaster/headmistress.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

That potion puzzle is pretty bizarre. And the secondary trap is, if you don't drink water, you die? That was weird too, especially because as soon as you touch the water the Inferi come out. Hmm.

I *really* want to know what Ddore's portrait has to say. And Phineas, too.

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

♥♥ Phineas.

Phineas knows why DD trusted Snape right up to the end--even if I didn't want to take DD's word for it, I'll take Phineas's.


When asked about his trust for SS Dumbledore replied again: "My answer has not changed."
"I should think not," said a snide voice; Phineas Nigellus was evidently only pretending to be asleep.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I love Phineas!!! He's awesome.

And I want to know what he knows! Argh.