Damn, I'm tired. And writing.

[valis2]

For some reason this has been a ridiculously sleep-deprived week. I feel like I haven't slept at all. I've woken up a million times, and, because of La Luna and Her Magical Effect on Women, I've also been incredibly tired and cranky from the start before the sleep unhappiness.

I need to finish my merry_smutmas piece too.

I don't know about all of you, but I've finally figured out what's going on with my head and how I write.

1. I have to go through a long process of thought incubation first before I can write a single word. If I can't get it to logically make sense in my head it goes no further. This is the longest and most difficult part of the writing process for me. I think of several scenes and explore them, sometimes multiple times.

2. Outline. Very important. Often teamed with thinking more of the daydreamy stuff, but more focused. I outline in a way that makes sense to me, with snippets of dialogue. Well, the point of the dialogue. It often looks like this:

• Chapter Forty-eight: Pity
o SS POV: Severus’s room, Friday evening, September 31st
§ Severus dreams about ghosts leaving Hogwarts, Sarah leaving, he suddenly feels lonely
o ST POV: Sarah’s room, Saturday morning, October 1st
§ Dreaming of places she has lived, the manor, the forest in Poland
§ Severus wakes her
§ She realizes he could have just taken the artifact, realizes she should really trust him
§ Apologizes
§ He accepts, is a little clumsy for a moment
§ He says I’ll come back to reapply...

So you see what I'm talking about. The dialogue isn't exact, it's just the point of the dialogue. Everything gets fleshed out later.

3. Actual writing. If the outline is there, and the thought is there, it goes fast. My problem shows up when I haven't spent enough time on the daydream phase. If there is any point in the outline where I haven't detailed everything I often get a little stuck. It's happened with tLS a couple times, where I had sections of the outline with no material and I had too many ideas to sort through.

By this point I've actually "written" most of the major scenes in my head, sometimes several times, which makes the biggest scenes simpler to write when the time comes. Often it helps to point out new little details that I can indulge in because I'll start the scene in my head at the same moment over and over again, and sometimes the scene will proceed to a different place, especially if I spend a moment in another character's head.

4. Polish, beta, polish. My favorite part, though sometimes frustrating. This goes fast too.

Anybody else have a process to their writing they'd like to share?

Comments

[jen-deben.livejournal.com]

I seem to have two modes to my writing.

Mode 1
The plot bunny bites me on the bum, I sit down in front of the computer to staunch the bleeding, and something great falls out of my brain.

I always like it, whatever I end up writing while in this mode, but damned if I can force this sort of thing to happen at my bidding. The muse is very fickle with these kinds of stories.

It also only works for short fiction. I can't sustain a trip to "Golden city" for longer than about 15 000 words.

Mode 2
I spend ages obsessing and fighting with plot ideas, trying to outline something that will work. I sometimes enjoy this process, but often I find it a real chore. And if I don't outline in enough detail, I will inevitably find myself painfully stuck when I try to write the story.

However, once the outlining is done properly, I can sit down and just write the bugger with very little trouble.

I usually like what I write while in this mode, but occasionally have to do major rewrites or rethinks, and the work never quite "sings" the way stories that come via Mode 1 do.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I sometimes do Mode 1, too, but it usually only works with poetry/drabbles/shortfic, and I really need to be inspired. Sometimes I'll carry around the seed for a little while and think about it once every so often, and then I'll be at the computer, and an interesting line will pop into my head, and I'll try to capture it.

Mode 2 strikes close to home too. If I have any holes in the outline then I have to go through the whole daydreamy thing again, but it takes a little longer, sometimes, because I'm part of the way through and I have to make certain that it doesn't spoil anything in the future or contradict anything in the past.

[jen-deben.livejournal.com]

Thinking about it, I do the daydreaming part too, but it's faster for me. My brain scurries through the scene once, and then I really need to write it down. If I don't write it down right away, I risk either losing the energy of the scene, or forgetting crucial points so that the scene no longer works well - which is to say, I risk slipping out of Mode 1 and into Mode 2, where the evil outline becomes required.

[sigune.livejournal.com]

Hee! That's about how it goes with me! I find that about half of my stories were written in, say, one day (well, there will be some polishing later, but the writing is whoosh). The other half is accompanied by moans and groans, and often it takes a beta to prod at some part of it before it is what I want it to be.

I have often wondered which process produces the best results. If a story doesn't work at once, should I just drop it? It would be a great relief if I could, but more often than not I just can't rest before I have finished it.

However, once the outlining is done properly, I can sit down and just write the bugger with very little trouble.
I envy you :-). I find that if I need an outline at all, the writing is going to be trouble :-(. It seems that there will always be something forced about it, at least to me (I'm not sure about the reader). It is as you say: the ones that just 'drop out of your brain' have a spontaneity (and 'song') that apparently can't be matched by something that needs days and days of careful constructing. I think it's the 'song' that drives me onward; if there is no song, I need an outline :-).

[jen-deben.livejournal.com]

if there is no song, I need an outline

LOL! That's a beautiful way of putting it.

I've decided (for me at least), that it's better for me to just write, rather than wait for the 'song' to start up, even if I'm not totally happy with what I write when it's forced.

I have read authors who say that you should write every day, that there is merit to making a habit of it. Since I have a real tendency to avoid writing if I'm stuck on something, I'm trying to take their advice. Better to have something, rather than nothing, even if it needs work.

[sigune.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. When a text (fictional or otherwise) doesn't run smoothly, I'd do anything to avoid going back to it, and that's not a very productive attitude... :D

Also, it does happen that things that felt forced when I wrote them, actually turn out to be quite all right when I go back to them afterwards. It's true: anything is better than nothing at all... But it's, you know, straining. Only people who don't write can think that writing isn't labour :-).

[ac1d6urn.livejournal.com]

Great summary! My writing process is pretty much the same, although it contains more dialogue blurbs and 'catchy descriptions' in stage two. Stage one contains a lot of research: google searching, collecting images, and selecting and listening to mp3s. Stage three is the hardest with its converting outline to actual scenes, but mostly because I'm lazy and struggle a lot with adding onto the outline. Am currently on this stage with Chapter 9 of Price and my writing pace is 'crawling' from scene to scene, but I'm getting there, slowly. Once I push myself into it, it goes fast. As a rule of thumb, if I get stuck: there is something wrong with the scene. Usually it's either unecessary or told from wrong character's POV. I've learned to jump from one mind to the other right away to see if the scene would look better with the POV switch. Fourth stage, ohhh yes! It takes about as long as the third. Usually involves a lot of emails back and forth between my betas and me.

(ETA: now with less spelling & grammar errors ;) )

[valis2.livejournal.com]

What usually gets me stuck is logic. If I haven't "daydreamed" the scene before then I have to spend some time in it. And then I have to do some daydreaming about what I've already written and what is to come, just to make certain that I'm not shooting myself in the foot.

Sometimes it's so hard to pick a POV. I'm using Third Person Limited, and sometimes both characters have such an interesting reaction that I'm tempted to rewrite the scene from the other's POV as well, but I don't really want to do this in this story (it's long enough already).

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

Let's see.
These days usually I decide I really need to get writing, settle down, read email, check blogs--if lucky I find a cool "productivity enhancer" to waste some time with or find someone equally idle on IM. Forget I was supposed to be writing. Which would be fine if I found something else to do that was productive like, say clean the house or wash the car or fix the yard but no, that's all crumbling around me too.

When I used to write, I'd generally start with an idea of an outline in my head. I generally have a starting point; an event, crisis, turningpoint or combinations of some or all of those, and a general idea of how I'd like things to turn out in the end (which almost never turns out to be the actual ending but having the 'finish line' seems to be important.)
The actual writing is virtually stream of concsiousness--my writing is dialog-heavy and I find that my characters, once they've found their voice can generally hold their own. Once that happens, things happen around them or to them pretty much outside of my control--all I do is try to keep them on the road, even if it gets twisty. If I get stumped it's almost always because I'm trying to "force" a character into a role he/she doesn't fit into or get them to do something they wouldn't do. I know it sounds schizo to say I 'argue' with my characters but that's how it feels. As many times as I edit something out thats' "popped out" of a character, it shows back up, or vice versa, no matter how many times I try to get a character to say something he/she just wouldn't say it always ends out cut in the end.

Lordy that sounds exhausting. No wonder I can't get started again.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I decide I really need to get writing, settle down, read email, check blogs--if lucky I find a cool "productivity enhancer" to waste some time with or find someone equally idle on IM. Forget I was supposed to be writing. Which would be fine if I found something else to do that was productive like, say clean the house or wash the car or fix the yard but no, that's all crumbling around me too.

You find idle people on IM? What a surprise! hahaha...

Yeah, some days I think, wait, I've just spent three hours on the computer and not written one word. Though I like to pretend that I'm doing "work" on eBay. Heh.

Sometimes when I haven't been writing for awhile it seems to "build up" until I almost can't write. I don't know if I just convince myself that it's way too hard or what, but when I do sit down, I almost invariably think, wow, this is easier than I remember.

No outlining, huh? Just full steam ahead? Wow.

[rexluscus.livejournal.com]

I'm not actually all that happy with my process as it currently is. It needs an overhaul.

I start with an idea. I let it ferment in my brain for a week or two. A few scenes come into focus during this time, and then I write those down. Usually, that produces an obvious need for more scenes, which I then write. At this point, I go back and outline. I figure out what I need, fill in the gaps, and I've got myself a first draft. I leave it alone for about a week. Then I read it through, and make some decisions about which parts need work. I tinker, edit, add scenes, remove scenes. I repeat the leave it alone/read it fresh step a few times until I'm satisfied with the thing. Or nearly satisfied. :)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm always afraid to write a full scene down before I've reached that point in the fic.

I have this superstition about it, really. I hate thinking that it might be wasted because I change my mind about something before I get there. I also hate having to read it and pay tremendous attention to it because of the possibility that I've contradicted myself somehow. I always write from beginning to end (at least so far).

The way you're describing it, however, is the way that I've heard that a lot of professional writers write. They do some sort of outline, and write the important bits first, and then link it all up.

Fascinating! Thanks for commenting.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

For short fics: I listen to music, make icons, read, and trap bunnies from all of the above activities. Then, once I've got a general idea of setting, characters, and something resembling a general plot idea, (though no details,) I thrash out the dialogue and main events in a notebook. Once I've gotten that, I can go back and add more description and action. Then I have to reread for editing before calling that puppy done.



Longer fics: there's a lot of starting and stopping, depending on how well my muses are getting along with me that day. Sometimes I'll barely get a paragraph out and be happy for it. Other days I can get a whole scene done in one sitting.

To keep my muses in shape, I keep an outline listing scenes with characters and inspirarional music. I know I can always add more if I need to, but it's good to remind myself how close I am to the end and what my characters need to get done in order to accomplish that end. Some days I'll make lists in my notebook comparing characters from different fandoms. Then there's my other Word document: "Various Alts and Histories" is a place for me to try out different AU scenes, let minor characters run wild, and get teh emo drama out of my characters and not overload them with such in the fic.

One thing I've noticed: I hate baleeting sections of my stories, even if a new chain of events would work better. It means I've got to explain a lot sometimes, but that's where the AU scenes come in handy.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Wow, you've really merged your music with your writing! That's really interesting.

I only rarely listen to music while writing. I usually need to have absolute quiet, actually. Only when I'm writing a really important scene do I listen to anything.

Hey, do you have another address where I can send the CD?

[snegurochka_lee]

Get out fresh notebook and favourite pen. Go to neighbourhood coffee house (bonus points if they are playing the Smiths on vinyl), order coffee (hope for Sumatran - works best for angst fics, especially), open notebook. See what happens. ;-)

I'm not even being facetious. That's the extent of my planning process.

[jen-deben.livejournal.com]

*iz envious*

And I love what you write, so I'm doubly envious that it's that easy for you! :D

[snegurochka_lee]

Ha. Well, thanks. It probably helps that I rarely worry about plot of any kind, so outlining in advance wouldn't really help... ;-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Talent at work! That's awesome.

I would be waaay to distracted. I like quiet and such. I mean, at slow art fairs/shows I'll write lots of lists or plot points, but I usually don't like to write scenes, because I don't like getting interrupted.

The Smiths! on vinyl! Ah, I wish I had a turntable, because I have Strangeways and Meat and a couple others in my box o' vinyl...now I suddenly have a hankering for them. ;)

[kleio-the-muse.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow. It's always fascinating to hear how you writers do it, but also, a bit scary. *g*

I mean, that you're so meticulous (if that's the word I'm after, sorry, no dictionary at hand), planning it all so carefully in beforehand. The only bit that I actually recognised was the daydreaming, 'cause that's pretty much all I do. I dream and dream and then I wake up and scribble what I can onto paper/computer. And it's mostly just dialogue, with maybe some bits and pieces of the action and surroundings. There's no outline, no plan, just the pretty dreams in my head:)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

It's always fascinating to hear how you writers do it, but also, a bit scary.

Dahling, you are a writer, too! And a damned fine one. I love your stuff.

Do you know, I still think about that Snack you wrote (giant house-elf! bwahaha!) at least once a week. There were so many really great details in it, and it was really a heartfelt fic, honestly. I liked it a lot, and it really stuck with me even though most fanfic doesn't.

We all have a process...yours is interesting! I must say that I like the daydreaming the best, I think. The rest gets close to "work" at times.

[kleio-the-muse.livejournal.com]

You really shouldn't say things like that. I'm blond, very blond, and blushing really, really doesn't become me.

Can't tell you how flattered I am to hear you say that. That fic means a lot to me - spent more time on it than any other, for one - so to know that somebody saw what I saw in that scenario, is just... Better just say thank you and keep my face from turning into deeper shades of red:)

Anyway, I intend to work on my process. Not going to cut down on the daydreaming bit (gods, no!:), but it really might be useful to follow your lead and do a little more of that "work" stuff. Although sometimes I do wish there was just some sort of device to transfer the dialogue of my daydreams straight out of my head and into text. And it would write absolutely brilliant narrative passages to go with it. *g*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Although sometimes I do wish there was just some sort of device to transfer the dialogue of my daydreams straight out of my head and into text.

You and me both, dahling. And then everybody would be a writer. :)

[sigune.livejournal.com]

Should. Adopt. Dialogue Outline.

I've never used one, but reading this entry and pondering my WIP I think that when writing a long fic it's going to be pretty indispensable.

Thanks for sharing this! I lurve reading about other people's writing processes...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Just writing down the "point" of the conversation helps me sometimes. Especially because tLS is just so complicated at this point. Every scene needs to transmit something important to the audience for later, so I really have to make an effort to track that.

BTW, I keep thinking about your OC...Brynhild. In fact, I think it would be a crime if you didn't write that fic. She sounds utterly fascinating. Just the fact that she's part hag has me drooling about the uniqueness and the possibilities.

[sigune.livejournal.com]

:D

I'm doing my best, honestly... I just went over the whole scenario with my beta, who made some really neat suggestions. It's still a daunting task, I think, but it would be a shame to abandon it after all the work I've already done on it, so... I haven't got much time at the moment, what with my comic deadline and RL, but the least I can say is that the scenario hasn't landed in the bin yet ;-).

I'm repeating myself, but dear me, I am in awe of the size of tLS and the incredible courage and perseverance you possess :D!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Aw!! *blushes* Thanks, sweetie. I just keep thinking about how nice it will be when it's finally finished!

[aerynstales.livejournal.com]

Writing process, huh? Right...well let's see.

1. Plot bunny hits me over the head with a mallet. Once I've regained consciousness, I IM Lian and tell her all about it (mostly in fear of the bunny hitting me again). She either yea or nays it...or just asks loads of questions.

2. We play around with the characters. Drabbles, little mundane scenes, etc. Get a feel of who had a better hold on what character.

3. Plot. I sit down and plot out an outline. Then I give it to her and she adds to it or tells me we really don't need this scene even though it would be cute or fun. *curses* And then I tell her bits we don't need...needless to say we back and forth this a bit.

4. The chapter by chapter outline. Where we take the plot and decide exactly what's going to happen chapter by chapter with it. I really recommend this as it keeps you in line and we're less likely to forget an important point.

5. We start writing. Now...occasionally we'll do certain scenes first - it really depends what mood we're in. It's all done on IM and we each take characters and whatever actions they will be doing, and add a bit of scene there too (descriptions and enviorns will get fleshed more later).

6. We take it out of chat and have a rough draft. Lian goes through it (as she is great with the descriptions and environs) and adds to it, fleshes stuff out, etc. Then I get it and add my two sickles, and start the gramatical edits. I clean...I polish...and then...

7. I send it to the beta. She has her two galleons worth of say...points out the dangling modifiers, elipses and comma abuses, etc...and sends it back.

8. After Lian lets me know what she disagrees with (if anything) that the beta had to say, I fix it...again, and now we have a product to post!

9. SH tells me I did a, b, and c wrong (this is much more rare now) and I cry and headdesk a few times and fix it.

And there you go! This takes about a week usually, by the way. :D

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Y'know, this is really interesting.

You should back and forth with Lian and do an extended version of this for your LJ. Seriously! I'm not kidding! I think a lot of your fans would absolutely love to hear about the process. It's really fascinating to see how writers work together...especially overseas! Technology is so awesome. And you guys have such a rhythm going at this point.