Oh, and one more thing (very short), about a certain mother in DH

[valis2]

I really have to agree with perverse_idyll about the odd Molly Weasley vs. Bellatrix moment. When I read it, I thought, WTF?

subrosax pointed out that Neville's backstory with Bella has been there since early in the series, and how it was astonishing that it was set up (and reinforced by the MoM stuff in OotP) and just completely ignored in favor of giving Molly this big moment.

I was pretty mystified by it, honestly. We've never had any point in the series where Molly is angry over having a daughter, or any sort of tension where the logical story conclusion is for Molly to finally defend Ginny. Also, there is no point (I think) where Bella has harmed her family in the showdown, and I'm just not understanding this plot development at all.

I think it would have been absolutely fantastic if it had been Gran who did the deed. Not only would it have been shocking, it would have been terrific to show an older woman knocking Bella down a peg. Gran "lost" her son and her daughter-in-law to Bella, as well as having her grandson "addled" by Memory Charms. She would have been a wonderful narrative addition, I think. And she was there already!

Comments

[ellid.livejournal.com]

Good point. I would have liked to have seen that.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

That would have rocked, y'know? I'm kind of bummed that it didn't happen.

[mecklen.livejournal.com]

I agree completely, and you're right - Augusta dueling her would have been very interesting. And Gran v. Bellatrix seemed to be set up more than Molly v. Bellatrix. I think it was done more to redeem Molly and make the reader worry she was done for.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I was pretty shocked at first, and then I thought, oh dear, there goes Molly! But I had faith in her (and I just knew JKR wouldn't kill her), and Molly did pull it off.

Still, it was a scary thing to do, and I think it would have been better to let Gran lend a hand!

[ziasudra-fic.livejournal.com]

Oh, Gran would have been perfect for that scene! She would totally kick Bella's ass ;)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I know!!! I would have loved that. I mean, Gran showing up was awesome, but that one extra step...I would be fangirling for life, srsly.

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

I would also have liked to see Molly be badass for herself and the Order and truth and justice, not only for family. She should be a powerhouse.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I was all ready for Molly to be pretty competent and stuff...but Bellatrix is all shades of crazy!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was an eye-roller for me.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hee! Definitely.

Ooh, new icon! *lurves*

[karasu-hime.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes! Augusta would have been much more poetic there!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't that have been AWESOME?!

[randomspectator.livejournal.com]

I would love to see Gran vs. Bella, and I agree that it seemed odd and unfounded for Molly to be the one to do the deed.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Gran would have made more narrative sense. They have a "history" of sorts. I'm certain she knows what happened to Neville at the MoM, for example.

[mariannelee.livejournal.com]

I LOVED Molly v Bellatrix, while at the same time I agree with you and did do a small WTF at the time. I think it wasn't Neville because he simply wasn't good enough, and to have him defeat Bellatrix would have been an even greater eye-roller.

Gran - what a great idea!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I think it would have been too much for Neville to do it...I really think I agree with you on that one. But Gran! It would have been such a fun plot point.

[gmonkey42.livejournal.com]

I thought maybe Bellatrix killed Fred and that's where Molly's, um, unexpected can o' whoop-ass came from.

That would've been so much better if it had been Gran.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, maybe that's why, then.

Still, GO GRAN!

[privatemaladict.livejournal.com]

While I regret the fact that it wasn't Neville who finally took out Bellatrix, I think the mental image of Molly yelling "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!" and proceeding to kick arse makes up for it!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I actually cringed when that happened. For a moment I thought, isn't JKR laying it on a bit thick? I mean, it was still a good moment, but Gran would have been kickass! ;)

[sor-bet.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yeah, now that you mention it, Augusta would have made much more sense. Molly jumping in like that was a bit confusing, and Neville would probably still have gotten his ass kicked, just because he's a nice guy who wouldn't stoop to Bella's level (maybe).

[sor-bet.livejournal.com]

And I wonder if JKR will read this idea somewhere and go, "D'oh!"

[valis2.livejournal.com]

It would be cool, wouldn't it?

Now that we have her on record for saying NO NEVILLE/LUNA and then later saying...WELL, OKAY NEVILLE/LUNA, IT DOES MAKE SENSE or something like that. heh.

[todayiamadaisy]

I agree! I had a "Molly?!" moment there, and it should have been Neville or Gran, you're right. Or one of the girls - Hermione or Luna in response to Bellatrix torturing them earlier, or Ginny to justify her presence there. Or Tonks, to wrap up the story that began at the start of the book, with Bellatrix trying to kill her (which I assume she did).

I can think of two reasons JKR put Molly there, though:
(1) The series is shot through with references to mothers and love, and Molly has been the über-mother. She's also copped a lot of criticism from the fans for being a housewife & mother and not doing anything exciting. So here she is doing both: being a mother and doing powerful magic in response to that, the good woman taking out the bad. (In fact, I got the impression in a couple of other places JKR was trying to give fans what she thought they wanted - the end of shipping debates in the epilogue, for example - and they didn't work either). Or:

(2) She's the one to kill Bellatrix because that puts her directly into Voldemort's sights. That means the series begins with baby Harry being protected from V by his mother; the series ends with Harry protecting his mother-figure from V.

*shrugs* But as I said, I thought it should have been any of the characters above rather than Molly. At least trying to work that out is less painful than contemplating the whys and wherefores of Lupin!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I agree! I had a "Molly?!" moment there, and it should have been Neville or Gran, you're right. Or one of the girls - Hermione or Luna in response to Bellatrix torturing them earlier, or Ginny to justify her presence there. Or Tonks, to wrap up the story that began at the start of the book, with Bellatrix trying to kill her (which I assume she did).

Any of them would have worked--I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow, honestly.

(1) The series is shot through with references to mothers and love, and Molly has been the über-mother.

Oh yes. How could we forget the motherly essence of divine food-stuffing?!!

(2) She's the one to kill Bellatrix because that puts her directly into Voldemort's sights. That means the series begins with baby Harry being protected from V by his mother; the series ends with Harry protecting his mother-figure from V.

Oh, that is a good thought. *ponders*

And you're right about Lupin. I'm still just so sad about him. I'm trying not to dwell! *laughs* I'm such a nutter.

[paininmydiodes.livejournal.com]

She's also copped a lot of criticism from the fans for being a housewife & mother and not doing anything exciting.

But maybe that's what Molly chooses to do with her life and it's her right to do as she pleases, just as it was Tonks' right to become an Auror or McGonagall's to become a Hogwarts Professor or Bellatrix's to become an insane Voldie fangirl.

Mimbi.

[todayiamadaisy]

Oh, I didn't mean that I agreed with the criticism. :-) I was just saying that I've read a lot of criticism over the years to that effect, and I wondered if that had any impact on JKR's decision to put Molly there.

[gmonkey42.livejournal.com]

Re. #2: that makes sense. There were moments all throughout the book when it was like "oh, now it comes full circle." Like when Hagrid and Harry rode the motorbike again.

[paininmydiodes.livejournal.com]

Oh, oh, Molly was AMAZING!

It was just right! And for her to protect and be angry for her daughter like that is so wonderfully in-character! Almost everything she does is because (or for) her family. She's the ultimate (still alive) mother figure. Just look at what happens when she sees a Bogart - she sees her entire family dead.

I liked it ^^

Mimbi (using Marvin's LJ)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hee! Hi Mimbi!!

I absolutely get the family thing, but I just don't understand why she was used to kill Bella, specifically. Maybe Fenrir? That might have been exciting--the ultimate mother killing the ultimate child-hurter.

[lewlinx.livejournal.com]

We've never had any point in the series where Molly is angry over having a daughter, or any sort of tension where the logical story conclusion is for Molly to finally defend Ginny. Also, there is no point (I think) where Bella has harmed her family in the showdown....

I don’t think it had anything to do with Molly being angry at having a daughter; actually the logic behind it is rather simple…

Having from the start forbidden Ginny to join the fight because she was afraid to lose her only daughter in a battle were ALL of her family was already involved, she realized that Ginny has not only not listened to what she ordered, but also, she is duelling –along 2 other GIRLS, mind- one of the most ruthless DEs. Bellatrix I am sure, we can agree on, is the sort of fanatic lunatic legends are made of.

But let me get back to Molly and her motives.

We’ve known all along – and DH is no exception to this – that family is Molly’s #1 strength as well as weakness. So imagine the situation for this witch, were her whole family has been in Mortal Danger for more than a year and now she is faced with the harsh reality. They are all fighting; every single one of them is exposed to a killing curse, and on top of all she has already lost one of her precious children. Remember, she attacks Bella after having seen Fred’s body, after having hugged her baby boy one last time.

When she tells Bella “you-will-never-touch-our-children-again” She does not mean Bella herself, but the Death Eaters as a whole. Yes, she attacks Bella, but because Bella almost killed Ginny, thus her initial cry of “NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!” As I said before, she’s already lost one, she is by no means ready to lose yet another one of her children to the Death Eaters. In short, Bella messed with the wrong witch…

Yes, you are right in saying that had it been Gran who finished Bella, the whole Longbottom story would have come full circle and probably it would have made more sense, but if you look closely at the whole of DH, mothers and most importantly, mother’s love for their children is a the heart of the story, so it does make sense that Molly had this one last shining and glorious moment…

And yes, I am also biased, I already know that…but you can’t deny there is reason to my madness ;)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hee! I knew you'd answer this!!

And what you're saying--I agree with it completely, and I can absolutely see her trying to kill Bella and stuff.

I'm just saying that I wasn't very satisfied with it; I had really hoped that Neville/Gran would do the deed.

In fact, in my heart of hearts, I was hoping beyond hope that Molly would kill Fenrir Greyback. It would have been the ultimate triumph of mother over child-preying-monster, and that would have been sweet justice indeed, exactly the "shining and glorious moment" we both want.

But those are just my thoughts, and you now have canon!rockin'!Molly! hooray!

[lewlinx.livejournal.com]

hee! I knew you'd answer this!!

How could I not when you dangle such a yummy piece my way! ;)

...I had really hoped that Neville/Gran would do the deed.

I hoped so too, really, I wanted Neville to have his real revenge over the woman who so easily and happily left him to be as good as orphan.

When he killed Nagini I just went "huh?!" It didnt make sense! I made my peace with it thinking once he'd seen he had the strength to kill Voldy's #1 beast, he'd have what it took to at least give Voldy's #2 beast a go. But he disappeared, as did Gran!

In fact, in my heart of hearts, I was hoping beyond hope that Molly would kill Fenrir Greyback. It would have been the ultimate triumph of mother over child-preying-monster, and that would have been sweet justice indeed, exactly the "shining and glorious moment" we both want.

You make a very good point here. Molly/Fenrir would have been great to see and indeed would have made much more sense...that could be something to think about. I dont remember, was he killed in the end or not?

But those are just my thoughts, and you now have canon!rockin'!Molly! hooray!

My beautiful lovely Molly kicking ass! No doubt, hands down my favourite part ;)

[tjwritter.livejournal.com]

I got a whole other feel for it, but I see all of your points. I thought of Sirius at that moment. I thought of what a bitch Molly was to him and how she made his life sorta miserable that final year (in the books, not the movie!) and so when she took out Bellatrix, Sirius' murderer (sorta), I felt she redeemed me for her treatment of Sirius!

But it should have been Neville!!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

That's a very interesting thought...it hadn't occurred to me. But yeah, go Neville!!!!