Strange thoughts about fic/art schizm

[valis2]

I am very loopy, still, so forgive me if this rambles. I haven't been feeling well since Tuesday morning.

So I've noticed (or at least I think I've noticed) that there is kind of a schizm between fanfiction writers and fanartists. No, I don't mean that there is some sort of civil war and the fanartists are launching erasers at the fanfiction authors or anything of the sort. I just mean that I've noticed that the writers tend to stick together, and the fanartists tend to stick together, though that isn't a strict rule, of course, because there are some people who do both, and there are collaborations, etc. It's just that I've seen cliques of writers, and cliques of authors. I've noticed this for awhile now. So I kind of wanted to do some thinking about why it's like this.

I am thinking that it's just due to human nature. Writers (generally) know how to write, and artists (generally) know how to draw, and there is a knowledge of the process that becomes common ground among other writers or other artists.

For example, if I praise a drawing, I don't have a lot to say other than I like it, or I don't like it, and what details jumped out at me. I might try to describe the mood, or the emotion(s) invoked. That's because I'm not an artist, I'm a writer. I don't really know how difficult it is to get the cross-hatching just so, I really don't understand what a conté crayon is, and I can't praise its use. I can only say my opinion about the overall effect of the piece; I would be very reluctant to suggest a different technique or perspective. However, a piece of writing...now that I can sink my teeth into and really see the nuts and bolts that went into its construction.

So one part of it is that artists and writers don't have a common base in technique. Using words to build a picture is quite different from using lines, I think. Artists, once they've drawn something, are able to engage in dialogues about tools and techniques, and because of their skills they can appreciate drawings in a different way than writers. The same with writers. Writers notice the little tricks of the trade, and can point out the careful use of a symbol to invoke a particular mood, and that leads to more conversation. Writers love to write about writing, they usually love to read, and this leads to lots of conversations among themselves. I've seen the same sort of thing with artists. Having that common language of tool and technique means that when we talk with other writers we have an instant "access" of sorts into their minds, simply because we know the basics of the craft. So writers can immediately start conversing with other writers about how wonderful novels written by poets can be and how lyrical their writing is, while if I attempted to talk to an artists I wouldn't immediately have that same common ground.

Also, so many of the fanartists in the fandom are so exceedingly generous with their art, and are friended by so many people, that I can't imagine that they don't use filters. Which leads me to the main purpose of LJ: communicating, and receiving communication. The flists of some of the fanartists are just so large that I can understand why many people just don't have time to respond to comments, and some fanartists would rather be drawing then saying "thank you!" two hundred times everytime they post. So I do understand that when you have one comment saying "Great drawing!" and another comment saying "The chalks are blended so beautifully and contrast so well with the inked lines" that the artist-oriented comments would be so much more interesting and more likely to receive a response.

Actually, some fanartists are so popular that they end up putting their artwork into separate journals to combat the massive friending issue. Some writers do this as well, I believe.

So my point? I don't know, I just think it's fascinating that the two media most commonly seen here in the HP fandom are two very different artforms, and that the practitioners of said art forms are affected by the art form they practice. I love writers and artists; and it's really interesting to see how they interpret things, and how they communicate, both within their groups and without. I am always interested in people like ac1d6urn and snapesforte who exist in both worlds.

Any thoughts? I'd love to hear them.

Comments

[cantatrix05.livejournal.com]

I suspect that, in general, artists and writers think in different ways. Writing is a rather linear process and visual art is more global. That doesn't mean we all can't be friends but that our approaches are different. The division is 100% accurate of course. I am very linear and love outlines and 3x5 cards and, in fact, need them if I am writing anything of complexity. My college roommate couldn't write an outline to save her life. When writing a term paper she would read all the source material and just start typing. Then she would try to extract the required outline. I thought that was incredibly weird but hey, now she's a lawyer so it must work.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

That doesn't mean we all can't be friends but that our approaches are different.

Yes, exactly! When I first became part of the fandom, I was sad because it didn't really seem like I was "connecting" with artists. Then I realized it's because our art is different in many ways, and that it was much easier for me to connect with a writer, who was laboring in the same manner that I was. I do have a few artist friends (yay!) but many people do seem to group together with their fellows. Nothing wrong with that; after a year in LJ, I think I'm beginning to understand why. :)

[snapesforte.livejournal.com]

I'm addnig this to memories. I think you are spot on.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

And you're one of those fascinating people who exists in both worlds. Amazing!

[bell-witch.livejournal.com]

Really interesting insight, and this is the type of thing I friended you for.

I'm new to the fandom, fairly. I'm not a popular writer and don't have a lot of people watching my f-list, although I've written a good 100,000+ words in fanfic since November of 2004. (That looks scary written down.) As for quality, I can't judge. But I've written.

I never wrote for pleasure/entertainment before I was 30, really, and this HP stuff is basically the first I've put out anywhere except for a few things that I wrote under another name in other fandoms. Had excellent English/grammar classes, took rhetoric once in high school and once at university. Believe me, the high school class was what taught me to write. I've had a creative writing class, although I can't remember what the focus was. Not poetry, although we've had to write that for other classes. In university, I only had to keep a journal (for rhetoric) and write papers. Nothing creative, really.

But I went to university and got a BA in Art. Imagine the cries of agony in the Art History class when the prof. says we need to write a paper. This is my infamous 7-page long (1 1/2 spaced) paper when it was supposed to be 5 pages (mostly double-spaced.) For an art student, five pages is like hell. I needed to say more, and I did get an A, despite my paper's being too long. It was not excess blather just to make it longer, but stuff that needed to be there.

I've done almost no fannish art, and nothing original. Not for HP fandom. I'm trying to do HP sketching now, but my artistic skills have festered into nothing. I can only wonder if I've lost the process, or if it's art block bigger than my writer's block. And I can't imagine having hordes of people friend/watch my LJ even if I do start posting fan art.

I guess I could be in both worlds. Or not belong in either, as I often feel. I do have more to say about artwork than someone who knows nothing about it, and I usually want to know the medium the artist worked in.

I think someone with a bit of knowledge of both processes would be more interesting in a conversation than people in just one or the other. That makes the groups divide off, while if there are a number of people who can intelligently talk about both, and show how one process relates to the other (and they do, especially the knowing when to stop part), then everyone can stay and talk in the same group.

If that made no sense, it's because I'm as crappy a writer as I am an artist. [My current self-doubt at my art ability is a direct result of me trying to work again. If I was having any success at all, I wouldn't be so irritated.]

[valis2.livejournal.com]

When I first started on LJ, I friended mostly people in a couple communities that I found interesting. Later I found writers and fanartists that I liked, and I friended them too. That was when I noticed that not everybody in fandom has time to engage in commenting; some people don't ever reply to any comments on their work, or just do a blanket comment in the next entry. I noticed that I especially wasn't mutually conversing with fanartists, and I wondered about it every since, and thought this would be a good way to find out how other people feel about artists/writers in fandom.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_noesumeragi_/]

Well, this was fun to read because I write and draw (more or less sucessly ;), so I'm a bit in both sides, and I can say you are spot on. It's very interesting to discover how a same friend can comment in a very different way depending on if it's art or an story; they can like both, but they always have *more to say*about one than about the other.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think we all have things we respond to, and when we know more about a topic we can definitely speak in detail. I always wonder if fanartists get sick of "I love this! It's great!" over and over again...

[http://users.livejournal.com/_noesumeragi_/]

I suppose it's better that than nothing... personally, I like even those reviews, but I don't know what to answer besides some tasteless “thanks”... :x

[ldybastet.livejournal.com]

This is interesting. I have found myself that the two crafts are different, because I've been painting for a number of years, and only began writing in 2003. One of the things that I find is that when I try to use a linear approach to my writing, I often eiyher get stuck, or lose interest. *g* I get this 'movie' in my head and then I try to describe it. So often I wish that I was making fanart instead. ;-)

About the reviews... I think it's similar to the difference between a 'this was hot!' review and one that quotes favourite lines and/or moods in the story and perhaps also mentions things about characterisation. Although, I'm very happy about the first type of comments too.

And just to prove our point about writers loving to write about writing, and also reading - I'm friending you if that's okay? :-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I get this 'movie' in my head and then I try to describe it. So often I wish that I was making fanart instead.

Oh yes, I love it when you get such a strong set of images moving in your head. I've talked to a few other fanfic writers who use music to inspire "videos" that they can turn into stories. I've done entries before on text-based versus image-based thought patterns; for me the images aren't very strong, but the narrative is, and I compose stories in my head as if I were writing them at the moment. Sad thing comes later when I can't remember the exact wording, but I usually can find an alternate route.

And just to prove our point about writers loving to write about writing, and also reading - I'm friending you if that's okay?

Lovely! Have friended you in return. I'm fairly certain I've read some of your work and liked it, and I probably should have friended you a long time ago!

[ldybastet.livejournal.com]

I compose stories in my head as if I were writing them at the moment. Sad thing comes later when I can't remember the exact wording, but I usually can find an alternate route.

Yes! I do that all the time! And it can be rather frustrating when the words fade and the clever and 'perfect' dialogue is forgotten. So, I got myself a tape recorder to have by the bed, because there's usually where I get my stories, while waking up in the morning. :-)

I'm fairly certain I've read some of your work and liked it, and I probably should have friended you a long time ago!

Yep... I know you have read "The Taste of Revenge", because I still have a comment from you on that in my inbox *g*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

So, I got myself a tape recorder to have by the bed, because there's usually where I get my stories, while waking up in the morning.

Yes, I get lots of thoughts there, and also while I'm driving or at work. Fortunately at work I can jot down little notes on tiny pieces of paper so that I can conveniently lose them or find them later and have no idea what I was babbling about.

Yep... I know you have read "The Taste of Revenge", because I still have a comment from you on that in my inbox *g*

A-ha!

Had to look it up online (my memory is awful!), and now I remember it. What a creative, unusual fic. Hope I said something nice in my comment!

[ldybastet.livejournal.com]

jot down little notes on tiny pieces of paper so that I can conveniently lose them or find them later and have no idea what I was babbling about.

LOLOL Yes, I have those scraps of paper too, and often have no idea what they are about. I stopped losing most of my notes though, when I began using little notebooks. Now I lose entire notebooks instead. lol

What a creative, unusual fic. Hope I said something nice in my comment!

Yes you did. :-) And now you did again. Thank you. *g*

[alchemia.livejournal.com]

there does seem to be more people who do one or the other but i dont understand the reasons people give. i do both but i'm not that prolific as a lot of my time is taken up with a huge WIP and also with freelance/pro work; plus i tend to do my art on canvas in paits which takes longer than a sketch or tablet/photoshop. and while i think more ppl know me for writing- i can't even *think* in words. its all like a silent movie when i write. i feel more secure with art b/c i can easier judge how well whats on canvs compares to whats in my head. when i write, its like doing art in the dark!

i dont think youhave to be an artist to appreciate art or a writer to appreciate a story, or to talk about them (i think people maybe more so insecure and think that is true because of that insecurity and threfore they avoid commenting on what they feel they 'can't' do). personally i am awful at talking about either i think- if it wasnt for cliff notes to know what i was supposed to talk about about a book, id never had made it through english; and i aced art by talent never having to write a paper or talk aout art until i go to college where i couldn't so much as connect colour to emotion which the teacher thought was really verybasic and therefore i must be purposefully being difficult and i got poor marks

[vanityfair00.livejournal.com]

Here from the Daily Snitch...what an interesting discussion. I'm fairly new to LJ but as a writer my flist is comprised of mostly writers, and I think its for many of the reasons above. I find myself having more in-depth discussions about that process than I could ever hope to have on a piece of fanart. Which is why this comment intrigued me the most.

I can't even *think* in words. its all like a silent movie when i write. i feel more secure with art b/c i can easier judge how well whats on canvs compares to whats in my head. when i write, its like doing art in the dark!

This is amazing really, because I do think in words. I'm not a very visual person. The first time the HP world really came alive for me was with the first movie...which is why I adore fanart. It puts into images for me what was previously just words and vague ideas. My writing tends to convey less "images" and more emotions than anything else and I think this is why.

i dont think youhave to be an artist to appreciate art or a writer to appreciate a story, or to talk about them

No but it certainly helps. I appreciate all those books I read in high school so much more now that I write myself. I wish they could find a way to combine both creative writing with literature analysis that would give students a better appreciation for the skill involved. "Yes kids Anna Karenina will bore you to tears but isn't the juxtaposition just wonderful! Remember how hard that was to do in your own stories." I think you get more of the hands on kind of learning in art. You learn both how to create and appreciate at the same time, or at least more than you would in a literature class.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly new to LJ but as a writer my flist is comprised of mostly writers, and I think its for many of the reasons above. I find myself having more in-depth discussions about that process than I could ever hope to have on a piece of fanart. Which is why this comment intrigued me the most.

Glad you were interested in the entry. I love talking with other writers about writing...we have so many things in common, yet at the same time we all have our little quirks and ways of processing information. Some writers want to work in a fixed schedule; some writers write only when the impulse moves them. I love hearing about writers' habits. In fact, I should do an entry about that.

[vanityfair00.livejournal.com]

Yes you should, I would read it. Mind if I friend you?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Go right ahead! <3 friends.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I love thinking about the different ways we process information. Some people seem to lean towards thinking textually, while some think visually...sounds like you're more into the visual side of things. Our brains are pretty amazing pieces of work.

[glockgal.livejournal.com]

Eee I love thoughts about fandom dynamics, especially between fanficcers and fanartists.

It's a neat phenomenon you discuss in this fandom in particular, because the ratio of fanficcers to fanartists is so much more balanced than when compared to other fandoms. Certain fandoms (ie, TV/media fandoms, like X-Files or popslash) lend themselves more to fanfic while others (many manga/anime fandoms) are heavily fanart. HP seems to bring in, while not equal, a very large community of both.

I adore giving feedback to fanficcers and fanartist alike, but it's true - with a fanartist, I have more quality things to say. With fanfic, it's a lot of "OMG I would NEVER think of that concept, but I works so incredibly well, how did you think up that, I love how you take canon and write between the lines, etc etc". Because I don't know if it's just a symptom of being a fanartist? But I am very poor at meta and plot analysis. Fic writers, on the other hand (at least, the one's I've spoken to), think about this stuff in exquisite and extraordinary detail.

As a fanartist, I like to concentrate more on the exact shade of Ron's hair, and visually perfecting the practical and realistic Quidditch uniform. *G* Another example - flimsy's adorable LJ polls on fandom's preference of Draco's hairstyle. It's very much a concern for fanartists, it is! I loved gleaning from that poll.

Anyway, what am I rambling about? Nothing really, but your discussion sparked the thoughtfullness in me. Thank you!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Eee I love thoughts about fandom dynamics, especially between fanficcers and fanartists.

Me too! I especially love seeing collaborations.

It's a neat phenomenon you discuss in this fandom in particular, because the ratio of fanficcers to fanartists is so much more balanced than when compared to other fandoms.

Yes, you're completely right, and I hadn't thought of that, being pretty heavily centered in the HP fandom. I think that the large set of characters and the different creative things that show up in canon definitely inspire a lot of artists.

I adore giving feedback to fanficcers and fanartist alike, but it's true - with a fanartist, I have more quality things to say.

I like to let artists know that I looked, at the very least, and liked, but sometimes I can't think of anything more than "Lovely!", and often I wonder if I'm just being a pest...but feedback is feedback, after all. ;)

Anyway, what am I rambling about? Nothing really, but your discussion sparked the thoughtfullness in me. Thank you!

Thank you for replying! You're such a sweetie, and a wonderful presence in HP fandom. *hugs*

[talithan.livejournal.com]

I find the differences you pointed out rather amusing, as I am both a writer and and artist (though I'm not especially accomplished at being either). This post was very interesting.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Glad you enjoyed! It's something I've been thinking about for a long time, and though I'm not certain that I expressed it well, it was nice to get it out on the LJ.