Strange thoughts about the fandom wish list

[valis2]

starrysummer has an entry here called Fandom Secret Wishes.

It's an anon meme where you go and talk about what you wish for in fandom. Predictably, most of the wishes are:

• I want to be a BNF


• I want more reviews


• I want to be part of an invite-only community (like erotic_elves)


• I want more people to friend me


• I want to write better


• I want to be recced more often and/or by bigger names


• I want fanart
(thanks for reminding me, scarah2)

Then I came across this comment by an anonymous poster:

It's weird to be posting here -- people are mentioning communities that I'm a member of, and I wasn't aware they were so prestigious, for lack of better term.
Mostly, though, I want to improve -- I'm stuck in a rut, and I'm telling the same story over and over and over again. I use the same motiufs, the same turns of phrase, and I hate it so much. I emulate my BNF friends over and over.
All I ever wanted was for one person -- just this one person -- to tell me I was good, and worth reading, and respectable. But she hasn't, and I don't think she ever will, and it hurts because I care about her so much.

First of all...I must admit that this might be a joke. Totally possible.

If it isn't, though, it brings up a thought. Do you feel that comments made by BNFs or writers that you respect have more weight or less weight than the average review? Personally, I am interested in every comment I receive, but I know that I'll really pay attention if it's from someone I know is a talented writer.

If you do feel that comments from those you respect have more weight, would you be terribly hurt if you never received one from someone you respect? from someone you interact with regularly? from someone who is a cherished LJ friend? from someone who is a cherished friend? from someone you are related to?

The first fandom person I ever friended was deepforestowl. One day she asked about my fic, and I pointed it to her, and was jumping around the apartment, totally excited that she was going to try it. This was before I really understood the HP fandom and pairings and genre. She commented relatively quickly and said, basically, that it wasn't her cup of tea. I was so sad for several minutes; I just sat and stared at the screen in misery. That is, until I remembered that HP fandom is just like RL. No matter how great your Tom Clancyesque novel is, I'm not going to read it, and this applies to everyone else. Some stories are just inaccessible to some readers. Almost no fic is going to capture everyone's attention, just like almost no book is going to capture the entire market. You should try instead to capture your niche, I think. And the point of this rambling paragraph is that pinning your hopes on that one BNF mega-fabulous prize-winning writer to validate your work is probably not the best idea. Perhaps you should just write for yourself, with vague thoughts about your audience as a whole.

Just my thoughts. I've been thinking about this all day.

Comments

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Plus a ton of people were like FANART. LOL I'm seriously going to give it a try. Once I finish these 48958 commitments....

[valis2.livejournal.com]

You're totally right!

And then there was one fanartist who was like, FANFIC.

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

Having never read more than 3 chapters of any fic written by any BNF (or BNF wannabe), I probably shouldn't talk, but I can't imagine why anyone would stake their heart and soul and wellbeing on being "validated" by any of them. I doubt most of them want the responsibility either.

The comment above is very sad and hope the person who posted it has some very nice SMF or even NNFs who she "talks" with regularly--they're the ones who know her and can help her the most. The thought of some poor person who finds it necessary to "emulate my BNF friends over and over" is horrifying, and IMO, the very reason the writer is in "a rut."

[valis2.livejournal.com]

The thought of some poor person who finds it necessary to "emulate my BNF friends over and over" is horrifying, and IMO, the very reason the writer is in "a rut."

Exactly! So strange.

I'm still not convinced that it is really an honest comment and not someone poking fun at being wangsty, but wow.

I really think that it's a setup for failure, pinning everything on one person and hoping that they'll notice you. And then say something nice.

[ldybastet.livejournal.com]

It is a subject worthy of some thought. *nods*

As fun as it can be to be a member of an invite-only community, I think that it only reflects the inviter's taste. If the community is large, it would of course also give a bigger audience, but in the end, we can also crosspost. *is guilty of that*

Do you feel that comments made by BNFs or writers that you respect have more weight or less weight than the average review? Personally, I am interested in every comment I receive, but I know that I'll really pay attention if it's from someone I know is a talented writer.

I actually not certain who's a BNF and who's not in this fandom. It's so huge that a person who is considered a BNF in the Snarry corner can be totally unknown to me in the Snucius and Malcest corner. *g* But apart from that:

I'm grateful for every comment and reply I get (unless it tells me I suck and not why), but I have to admit that a reply that says something about what was liked, in what way, an emotion it evoked, or a thought about the fic, or a favourite line, etc. will bring a little more squee to my heart. If the comment is from someone whose writing I enjoy and whose talent I admire, then of course I'll be bouncing happy. I think most of us would take that as some kind of... validation? Because if someone we admire likes what we do, then perhaps we are also worthy of admiration?

If you do feel that comments from those you respect have more weight, would you be terribly hurt if you never received one from someone you respect? from someone you interact with regularly? from someone who is a cherished LJ friend? from someone who is a cherished friend? from someone you are related to?

I wouldn't be hurt no... Because like you say, we can't please all tastes and all people. And perhaps the admired person didn't even see it? First and foremost, I try to please myself, but I know also that input from others (like a beta-reader or attentive reader) can push me further and make me improve my writing, so in a way, I do try to please that person as well, pushing for more. But I think that if I knew the person read the fic and didn't say anything about it, I would be disappointed. Mostly in myself and my writing ability. When it comes to online friends and people I am close to, I think I already know to a certain extent who will reply, who will like, and who won't read. If I know them well, I know their tastes, so then there's nothing to be disappointed about. :-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I actually not certain who's a BNF and who's not in this fandom. It's so huge that a person who is considered a BNF in the Snarry corner can be totally unknown to me in the Snucius and Malcest corner.

That is the interesting thing about HP fandom...it's enormous! Each pairing has its own crowd. Who is queen in HP/DM is unknown for RL/SS shippiers.

First and foremost, I try to please myself, but I know also that input from others (like a beta-reader or attentive reader) can push me further and make me improve my writing, so in a way, I do try to please that person as well, pushing for more. But I think that if I knew the person read the fic and didn't say anything about it, I would be disappointed.

Interesting! Yes, I have to admit, if I knew that one of the people on my flist was a gigantic supporter of SS/OFC and never commented on my SS/OFC, I'd be curious as to why.

But I don't think I'd ever be as consumed as the anonymous commenter seems to be, honestly. I've had my moment of realization, and after that, worrying about people I know not reading isn't really as upsetting. Friends will read what they want to read...just as I read what I want to read.

[bell-witch.livejournal.com]

This post says much of how I feel about the subject. I don't know who the BNFs are in HP, or in any of the other fandoms I read in.

I appreciate every response I get, although I am a bit baffled by the couple I've got that think the one-shot is going to be continued. I haven't been flamed yet, so I can't say how I'll react when/if that happens.

It doesn't matter who is responding, although I do like to hear from people I know. I never know who is busy, though, and I certainly don't comment on every story I read, even from f-list personal LJs. Although I have read much that I wouldn't have otherwise looked at because I knew these writers--and I've enjoyed a decent amount of it, too.

I know I write mostly for myself, but certainly do want to improve, and so appreciate concrit (even if I don't get much of that, either.) I want to write stories that people will enjoy reading. There's so much fanfic out there, and I don't want to waste people's time. Whether or not I affect someone or simply entertain, I don't want them to read a story I wrote and wish they hadn't bothered.

I honestly have no desire to be a BNF myself. I think I'd feel pressure to write that I don't have now, and it would stop being fun. Don't know much of anything about invite-only communities.

[virtual-gravy.livejournal.com]

I can create a couple of new screen names and friend you with them if it would make you feel like you are getting closer to your goal. :)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Hahaha! Virtual gravy sockpuppets...how cute.

You could make up names like bohemian_gangster and yoyoyo_I'm_takin'_pictures_heah.

[ziasudra-fic.livejournal.com]

If you do feel that comments from those you respect have more weight, would you be terribly hurt if you never received one from someone you respect? from someone you interact with regularly? from someone who is a cherished LJ friend? from someone who is a cherished friend? from someone you are related to?

My first reaction: no.

But I'm not made of stone...

So maybe, if I come to know and respect that person via some sort of personal interaction, whether online or in RL, AND they know about my post/fic/whatever. There's no need to feel hurt over someone who I know don't read my posts. Fandom is too big for me to want to be recognized cross-the-board (in fact, that would terrify me).

[valis2.livejournal.com]

There's no need to feel hurt over someone who I know don't read my posts.

Yes, exactly what I'm trying to say! :) I can't get that caught up in worrying because a person I like a lot hasn't read my story. Everyone makes choices, and I've probably not read stories by my friendslist that I should have, anyway.

[bohemian-gangst.livejournal.com]

Ummm... hi. I saw your LJ... can we be firends *BIG SMILE*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

LOL!!!

Oh, you are crazy cool, sir.

*still laughing*

You have to make an icon out of that shirt for this account.

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

ROFL1!!11Leventy!!one!
Me too! Me too! I want to feel validated!

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

Um...what does BNF stand for?

[parallactic.livejournal.com]

Big Name Fan. Generally, a fan who's popular and well-known in their fannish circle.

here via daily_snitch

[parallactic.livejournal.com]

I think the equivalent of, "I liked it," coming from a person you admire carries more weight than the same comment from a stranger. But an, "I liked it for a, b, and c," or concrit from anyone is really good.

Re: here via daily_snitch

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, valid concrit is like a cupcake with frosting. Completely awesome.

I love your icon, btw.

[aerynstales.livejournal.com]

Just wizzing by as I make dinner...heheh.

Interesitng list...I guess I'm guilty of wanting some of those, though I had to scan your comments to figure out what a BNF was! LOL!

I don't want to be a BNF...and personally, I know I never will be. I'm not that good...nor do I cater to one interpretation of Snape or another. Ah well. :D

I'd love fanart though! *Nods* I'd love more reviews...cuz I'm a review whore. I'd love to be recc'd...and let's see I DO want to write better...and hopefully I have improved.

As for an invite only community...ehhh...no biggie to me. It's a nice ego boost, I'm sure...but I'm not going to cry over it. :D

In the end I do this for fun. If people like what I write and take notice...woot! If not...well, I'm learning loads and exercising my creative muscles.

That said...fan art and more reviews would be lovely thanks...*snickers and runs*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

In the end I do this for fun. If people like what I write and take notice...woot! If not...well, I'm learning loads and exercising my creative muscles.

Exactly what I was thinking! :) I love writing and it's great when people like it as well.

We're all hams at heart, I think.

Enjoy dinner!

[ms-hecubus.livejournal.com]

Since I have only ever posted drabbles (and a mutated poem, of course), I've never expected much. I was really surprised to get an email once asking me when I was coming back to hp100. I have a fan? Wow!

I love comments from people I respect, but nothing makes me glow more than anyone telling me that they are adding me to their favorites/memories.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I love comments from people I respect, but nothing makes me glow more than anyone telling me that they are adding me to their favorites/memories.

You are already one of my favorites. No need to be added. :P

You rock.

[scatteredlogic.livejournal.com]

Personally, I am interested in every comment I receive, but I know that I'll really pay attention if it's from someone I know is a talented writer.

~nods~ Comments made by writers that I respect do carry more weight and garner more of my attention. Perhaps they shouldn't, but they do.

If you do feel that comments from those you respect have more weight, would you be terribly hurt if you never received one from someone you respect? from someone you interact with regularly? from someone who is a cherished LJ friend? from someone who is a cherished friend? from someone you are related to?

No. Like you, I'd already come to the understanding that what I write isn't going to appeal to everyone, not even people that are my closest friends or family. To use a broad (and true) example, most of my original stories are firmly in the fantasy genre. My mother doesn't like to read fantasy. No matter how much she might love me, it isn't going to change her taste in reading material. ;)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

My mother doesn't like to read fantasy. No matter how much she might love me, it isn't going to change her taste in reading material. ;)

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make! My H/D friends are never going to read my SS/OFC bloated WiP. Even my SS/OFC friends shouldn't feel obligated to read it. That's just how it goes! I realized a while ago that it just isn't productive to get all miffed about it...I just have to keep going forward.

[vanityfair00.livejournal.com]

I think that list demonstrates that everyone perceives "making it" differently. And of course the people you think have "made it" are thinking there's more too. For some they want more than 5 or 6 comments. Others have 20-30 but look at people who get 50-70 with envy. Can we ever get enough?

And is it more important "who" reviews and recs you, or "how many" people do? I tend to fall somewhere in the middle. I walked on air for days when one of my favorite authors commented on a story of mine or later when someone I liked rec'ed me. But I also like to see my hit count up too.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

What is that awesome Bruce Springsteen line?

"Poor man wants to be rich
Rich man wants to be king
and the king ain't satisfied 'til he rules everything"

You're completely right. Some people are freaked out because they have fewer than 50 people on their friends of list; some people wish that they didn't have so many people on their friends of list and feel pressured.

Some people think that they should be part of an invitation only community; some people think that they should be part of a quality-controlled archive.

You're right...it's all in the eye of the beholder!

[celandineb.livejournal.com]

Here via daily_snitch.

Do you feel that comments made by BNFs or writers that you respect have more weight or less weight than the average review? Personally, I am interested in every comment I receive, but I know that I'll really pay attention if it's from someone I know is a talented writer.

Actually, although I'm certainly glad to get comments from someone whose writing I admire, I'm even happier to get comments from someone whose reading tastes I admire. Because some people who write well themselves don't seem to be very discriminatory when it comes to what they read, you know?

Perhaps you should just write for yourself, with vague thoughts about your audience as a whole.

Yes. That's the ideal to be striven for, I think, but it's not easy. There's always a little bit of me that's sad because some of my friends won't read some of my stories. I know it's not me, it's some aspect of the story that doesn't interest them (wrong fandom, wrong genre, whatever), but there's still that tiny prickle of hurt.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yes. That's the ideal to be striven for, I think, but it's not easy. There's always a little bit of me that's sad because some of my friends won't read some of my stories.

:) I always hope that my friends who are into the pairings I write will try my stuff, but I'm not going to cry into my cereal if they don't.

Years ago, the first time I went to a craft show and tried selling my things, I thought that everybody would buy something. I put everything out and was expecting to do very well by the end of the show, it being near the holidays and everything.

Imagine my sadness when I sold only three things.

People look for what they want. Sometimes people will pick up an item and say "It's perfect!" and still not buy it. There's this elusive element of human nature.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

My best feedback comes from people who are totally unknown in fandom. I've befriended most of them because I can't not love people who want to help me improve. I don't care if nobody knows who they are; if they've helped me with my fic before, I'm going to listen to them before I listen to anyone else, BNF or not. My most trusted beta-readers are not known in fandom by a long shot. In short, I think it's silly to weigh the value feedback based on fandom popularity of the feedbacker. Because there are some BNFs who write pretty mediocre shit, yo. Popularity != quality.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

In short, I think it's silly to weigh the value feedback based on fandom popularity of the feedbacker. Because there are some BNFs who write pretty mediocre shit, yo. Popularity != quality.

heh...True! We all know that popularity sometimes clouds peoples' minds.

And I was thinking the other day, why the hell haven't I ever friended the fury-girl? I keep meaning to, and then I forget.

So problem solved. :) *hugs* Welcome to the Lone Sane Thought. The Lone Sane and often Befuddled Thought. heh.

[zoepaleologa.livejournal.com]

I went and peeked... saw pages upon pages of wangst and gave up peeking.

I want to be a BNF...

I cannot imagine why anyone should be so invested in a "virtual" community that they feel validation/popularity/notoriety is so important. I tried telling the checkout operator at Tesco's the other day that I had been on fandom_wank four times, and could I therefore get money of my tin of baked beans, and she told me to pay up or eff off. I then upped the ante and tried pretending I'd written the "Draco Trilogy" and she threatened to call the police. She said she'd never heard of the Draco Trilogy - just imagine!

I want to be in this, that or the other porn community...

Well, dear *pats the head of the excluded wannabee*, that's nice. I'm pleased to see ambition - it's one currency that NEVER decreases in value. And all you have to do is write the requisite amount of porn that gets the appropriate watchers off, post it in your lj, a bit like displaying your dirty underwear for all to see, and presumably you will feel as if you have arrived. And of course, it's vital to have on your writer's CV when trying to bag that all important literary agent the fact that you are a member of pornish_pixies and that you wrote underaged twincest... Dear Bigshot Literary Agent, my story where Bill, Charlie, Fred and George are all gang banging Ron and are interrupted by Arthur who joins in, was really well received on lj...

For me the fact that being invited to post porn on a porn community is regarded as some big hot achievement says everything I want to know. And in point of fact, all you have to do to get that invite is write at least two stories of the above, in that all important pretentious second person POV, and bingo:

You see him lying there, your baby brother with his cute little arse in the air.... See, not that difficult.

Of course, what needs to be really recognised is that the majority of posters on that sort of meme are very young - college students, or still at school (at least I hope the eff that's the reason) where being "in" with the crowd is so very important. When you get to my ancient years, you've seen most of it, accept that the majority of folk are nice, accept that some of the people you once when new and naive considered were sane are in fact howling deranged maniacs, with more personal issues than Bellatrix Lestrange, and you just remember the all important fact: most of the loonies don't know where you live, unless you are mad enough to tell 'em. They can get up to all the spite they like, and I'd say I've been on the end of more venomous spite this year than most, but so what? They do not know me, and I'm not that invested in all this.

[quivo.livejournal.com]

Nicely said and nicely done. I won't pretend I've never felt wangsty about the whole scene, but, face it, this whole LJ thing isn't that important to me, mostly because it probably will never get me a job at Barnes and Noble, or elsewhere.

And since I'm one of those writers that is primarily writing for herself and a few random interested people, and trying to flex as many creative muscles as possible until she gets sick of the fandom, it doesn't hurt as much when I giggle or sigh at something I wrote and think "OMG no one's reading this".

I guess people have forgotten what it really means to be writing fanfiction - it's not necessarily about the friends you make or the communities you get invited to. It's about what you write, and whether you feel good about it, because, frankly, the opinions of other writers don't count as much as one would think, especially in the light of what they read and write.

Like, for instance, if someone favourably compared my quirky little severitus Saga to darkirony's "Revolution", I'd go through the roof. And you've probably never heard of her story, especially if you stick to slash or wander about in the gen part of the fandom. Whereas, if someone compared it to the "Draco Dormiens" trilogy (you know, the one where Harry adn Draco switch bodies and travel implausibly all around the place, and gain implausible powers...yeah. that one), which you can already tell I cannot stand, I'd be like, um, *weak grin*, thanks.
I.e. public opinion generally is not worth a damn. The sheer amount of trash everyone seems to think is excellent is staggering, nay, mind-blowing, but I guess that's true for real life, too, so it's not as hard to understand.

All things said and done, however, They do not know me, and I'm not that invested in all this. Yeah.

[quivo.livejournal.com]

And jaysus is that whole thing long. I feel wierd - if I want, I can make my own fanart, and I like my writing, generally. It's really, really mind-boggling how many people are out there that don't like their stuff. I feel like saying "STOP! You're strangling yourself, and taking the fun out of the whole thing!" If you don't like what you're writing, then what are you doing writing it?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, a lot of people are pretty sad about "not being able to write". But really, that should either motivate you to try harder, or convince you to just write for yourself.

Though I guess I should shut up about this...it is a wishlist, and people are just being honest. ;)