Thinking about other fandoms

[valis2]

I've only been in the HP fandom (and the Mummy fandom, but I had no LJ then and didn't really participate much). But someone said something in an essay recently that made me wonder.

Obviously we tear canon apart. We dissect it, we shred it, we look for clues for shipping, backstory, and book seven's plot. However, at some point it has to break down. JKR writes interesting characters and twisty plots, but under heavy scrutiny it becomes obvious that some things aren't meant to be...well...scrutinized. I've noticed that fen in other fandoms mention the same phenomenon.

So, to all of you who were/are in other fandoms...do you do the same kind of intense dissection? And how successful is it? Do some works actually stand up well to that kind of close reading/viewing?

Comments

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

We are rather demanding as fans, aren't we? *laughs*

No kidding!

I've never been in a TV-based fandom, so what you're saying here is fascinating.

It's interesting when the actors, writers, and directors are open about how the production proceeded and what did/didn't get left on the cutting room floor...and how that all affected fan readings!

For instance, in Highlander fandom, writers were quite open about what was in the original script, actors about what their motivations were, what they'd been told to do, etc., directors about what they were going for during various scenes and so forth. And since there was a US version and a European version (the infamous Eurominutes), some scenes were cut that added or subtracted subtext/canon information. It was pretty fascinating to see how, with the addition of scenes or bits of scenes that had been cut from the original (either to make the show shorter, to censor things--the French TV channels allowed nudity but not overt bloodshed, for instance, whereas the US channels were reversed!) completely changed the meaning of certain scenes and entire episodes.

I keep thinking that HBP has certainly taken some of the wind out of the HP fandom's sails. It was so open-ended before HBP came out; we could write so many pairings and do so many interesting plot explorations, mostly because there weren't almost any concrete relationships.

This might be the biggest weirdness for me, in HP, coming from so many media fandoms. I'm so used to fiction getting Jossed, and to writing around canonical relationships (spouses, ex-wives/husbands, the infamous Babe of the Week) and canonical events (heck, Highlander, Sentinel, and Due South fans have ignored entire *seasons* of canon because their favorite characters were killed off! LOL) that it seems odd how stifled many writers feel in HP now that we've got more canon.

For instance, I was really surprised when the Harry/Hermione folks got so upset about Harry/Ginny becoming canon. After all, they're, what, 16 years old? With one single line, "And then, Harry and Ginny broke up" you totally clear the field for Harry/Whomever, yes? :-)

I mean, during the season there is a new show every week!

Thinking about it, perhaps that's part of the stunned silence that seems to follow each new chunk of HP canon. Whereas with a TV show, you get one small bit of canon each week, with HP, you get the equivalent of one entire season dropped on you at once! :-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

It's interesting when the actors, writers, and directors are open about how the production proceeded and what did/didn't get left on the cutting room floor...and how that all affected fan readings!

Yes, this is tremendously interesting---I find it totally intriguing because as you know HP is so very source based. There are movies, but most people just work from the book canon, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

Movie/TV sourced fandoms are much more collaborative, I'd imagine, especially when you bring in diverse elements like actors, writers, surprise, fear, ruthless efficiencies...I'll come in again.

For instance, in Highlander fandom, writers were quite open about what was in the original script

Someone on the flist somewhere was talking about how eye opening the commentaries on the Highlander DVDs are, and how the writers openly discuss things that were cut. In fact, apparently they have a bit of fun with the extras as well.

it seems odd how stifled many writers feel in HP now that we've got more canon.

That's true. But canon in HP is so much more concrete...it seems harder to "disregard" or write it off. In fact, I've read more than one complaint about Tonks getting killed off to leave the playing field clear for Severus to move in on the Lupin lovin'. ;) I think many of us want our canon and our cake, too.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

I think many of us want our canon and our cake, too.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that HP is based in text and these other fandoms are based in...er, images. Does text feel more factual/settled than images do? Do we somehow have a deeper reverence for text than images?

I know that some people have a great deal of difficulty writing fanfiction for book-based fandoms, and yet have no problem with visual media fandoms. Often, they cite that TV shows and films tend to be more collaborative and so you're only "messing with a committee's vision" rather than with a book author where somehow, the canon is more intimate. But I wonder if it has something to do with an unconscious/conscious reverence for the printed word...what do you think?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Does text feel more factual/settled than images do? Do we somehow have a deeper reverence for text than images?
I wonder if it has something to do with an unconscious/conscious reverence for the printed word...

Hmm...I think it could be partially based on the fact that HP canon comes out every year or two in bulk. We obsess so much over it, and we write so many theories and essays and just general squees that by the time it gets here, we're totally ready to assimilate it. And we really do, in a very ironclad way for most. I mean, Sirius-death-deniers usually label their fics prominently.

I also think that the HP books in particular have their own peculiar feature...they're very easy to read, yet there is a depth there as well for those seeking it. Not a Moby Dick depth, no, but enough to satisfy many adult fans. So I think that because JKR writes so clearly, and delineates her main characters so well, it makes looser depictions of canon seem...well...uncanonlike. Plus, the HP universe is encapsulated rather neatly in six books, and you can get most of them in paperback for $6 USD each. Unlike Buffy, where you have to rent them or buy them, and it could get very costly to do the entire run. Plus, there's a LOT more to absorb there.

I think because TV series are disseminated so quickly that there isn't a lot of "down time" (well, until the series is cancelled/finished) to digest canon and write. With HP, we have lots of time between books. So I think that a lot of readers/writers want to read something canon-compliant, because of this tendency to absorb the text so fully. The source is rather simplistic yet delightfully open. It's such an odd fandom, because we have rather strong character personalities, and very little in the way of backstory for most of them due to the myopic nature of our narrator. We also have a pretty strong ongoing plot.

I think because the books have so many unexplained mysteries that we see a lot of "explaining" fics around. (For example, the recent explosion in Severus Snape, Supah Dupah Deep Cover Spy fics. Everyone wants to figure out if he is evil or good.) I think that we have a lot of people in fandom who get really upset when new canon is released and doesn't follow their preferences.

I think a lot of things work into our desire for canon cake. ;) I think what you're suggesting about the sanctity of the written word is fascinating and plays into it as well.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

We obsess so much over it, and we write so many theories and essays and just general squees that by the time it gets here, we're totally ready to assimilate it. And we really do, in a very ironclad way for most. I mean, Sirius-death-deniers usually label their fics prominently.

See, in this way, I don't see any difference at all between HP and media fandoms. The theories fly fast and furiously during the days between new episodes. As soon a new ep comes out, it's pounced upon and dissected. Gah, just look at any SG-A list or LJ comm the day after a new ep. It's like a feeding frenzy, theories flying like mad! LOL. And re. A/U stuff, people do label their fics accordingly...like when Richie was killed on Highlander...people would slap a big "Clan Denial" warning at the top of their stories. ::snerk::

Plus, the HP universe is encapsulated rather neatly in six books, and you can get most of them in paperback for $6 USD each. Unlike Buffy, where you have to rent them or buy them, and it could get very costly to do the entire run. Plus, there's a LOT more to absorb there.

Bittorrent is really changing all that, though. These days, you can download the latest episodes of *anything* moments after it's been aired.

I think because TV series are disseminated so quickly that there isn't a lot of "down time" (well, until the series is cancelled/finished) to digest canon and write.

Hmm, I don't think I agree. I mean, new episodes always breed new fic, almost immediately. Especially fic of the missing scene variety. Almost no one waits until the whole season is over to start writing fic, even long stuff. The digestion--and the fic production--happens really rapidly! And even for long stories, unless something really *huge* happens (i.e. a character is killed/character gets married/etc.) chances are a medium length story won't get Jossed before the writer can finish it. But then, the fear of episodic Jossing isn't such a huge deal, at least not in the fandoms I've been in.

So I think that a lot of readers/writers want to read something canon-compliant, because of this tendency to absorb the text so fully.

Do you think that this might be a chicken-and-egg sort of thing? I mean, it's easier--as a writer--to be canon-compliant if you're assured that new canon won't Joss your 200,000 word epic for a year or so. Heh. ;-) Which leads to more canon-compliant stories (at least for a while!), which readers devour, and...the cycle continues. There's also the fact that there is just so damned *much* fanfiction in HP (unlike, say, Brimstone fandom) so that there's always something new and canonically up-to-date to read. I don't know...given how many popular (long) stories deviate so much from HP canon (ff.net, for instance), I'm not sure that HP readers are more desireous of canon-compliant fic than readers in other fandoms!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

Just goes to show I know nothing about writing for TV fandoms. ;)

I do think that there's a bit more time invested in writing for Buffy than writing for HP, just because there's so much more canon, and it's not written down. (You can get through HP's canon in about sixty hours of reading; I would imagine that watching all seven seasons of Buffy would be more like two hundred hours.) Then again, there are probably in depth episode guides to help Buffy writers, now that I think about it.

Any way you look at it, it's fun. :)

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

I do think that there's a bit more time invested in writing for Buffy than writing for HP, just because there's so much more canon, and it's not written down.

You know, it just occurred to me that we're sort of talking about different things! (Maybe!)

I'm mostly talking about TV shows where canon that is still being created. So, stuff like Stargate: Atlantis or Numb3rs or West Wing or House, for instance. Whereas shows with dead canon, like Highlander, or Buffy, or Xfiles, etc., yeah, I do agree with you...When you have, say 10 years worth of episodes to get through, that is definitely *waaaay* more canon than HP has or ever will have!

But then, writing for a show that has an active canon is a very different feel than one whose canon is dead. For one thing, the type of theorizing that goes on tends to be different (because you're speculating on what *might* happen, rather than just interpreting what *has* already happened). Plus, with a dead canon, you usually have tons of fans who were in the show from the beginning who have already kind of, er, crystalized fanon (for lack of better word) and who are often very resistent to newcomers dropping in and coming up with different interpretations for canon.

In a way, HP is kind of like a show like the Sopranos. Where there are long periods where the canon is quasi-dead (no new stuff being added), and then a new chunk comes by and people can start firing up their theorizing/writing engines again!

Anyway, you're right, no matter how you slice it, it's a good time. :-)