Saw Revenge of the Sith just now.

[valis2]

dphearson was absolutely correct...I don't think small children should see this movie at all.

The people in front of me brought their baby (fine, too little to know or retain anything), and their three year old and four year old boys, and made no move to shield them from any of the violent bits.

I can't even bring myself to do a thorough review. So I'll just say a few things.

I liked 20% of the movie.

I think Ian McD did a smash-up job with his role. An absolutely smash-up job. I think everyone else had a few moments, but for the most part just delivered some dialogue so George could have warm bodies walking about.

Ewan's huge amount of facial powder was so tremendously disturbing that I kept getting distinctly bothered by it and not paying attention to the dialogue.

The action was boring. The only thrilling bit was the battle between Anakin & Obi-Wan at the end.

The stupid lizard Obi-Wan rides for part of the movie bothered me tremendously.

I thought Hayden did a pretty decent job in this movie.

I thought Anakin went a bit quickly from zero to killing "younglings".

This movie suffers from the same problem as tPM & AotC. NO HAN SOLO. There isn't anyone with an ounce of charisma, spark, or life in the movie. Everyone is too melodramatic, calm, and too damned epic in their acting. There isn't a bit of spontaneity or warmth, really, except a teeny bit from Anakin. I wrote an entry about tPM which said that it suffered from the Too Many Jedi Syndrome.

Here's what I said about it then:

In a New Hope, we have only one full-fledged Jedi, dispensing calm and inner peace, gentle, easy with the world. That's great, especially when you have a cocky youth, a rogue, a prissy robot, and a tough Princess to balance it out. He becomes a wonderful balancing mechanism. We have lots of energy being thrown out by the characters, dialogue, tension, and he is able to smooth out some wrinkles. One Jedi is perfect.

But then, in the Phantom Menace, we have two Jedis. Ah. So then both characters are tremendously calm, quiet, and careful. And then the audience...or maybe just me...grows bored. We have no tension, because everything seems so...peaceful. The fight sequences are energetic, but then you have the scene in which Obi-Wan and Quigon are in a submarine with Jar-Jar. They are so calm about nearly getting eaten by various giant fish, and Jar-Jar is freaking out in such a hyperbolic manner, that I just went into full "Ugh" mode. And that's what happened to me with the third Matrix. We have all of these characters, and all of them are speaking in a highly metaphoric, highly melodramatic, deadly tone, that much tension and drama is lost. It seems that when everything is so dispassionate and emotionless, and so melodramatic, that it just heads into the unbelievable realm. Not every piece of dialogue has to be the difference between life and death. In the first movie, we have Mouse and other characters who are high-key and interesting. But by the third movie nearly all of the higher-energy characters are gone, and we're left with only the mythic characters, and it just becomes too...over-the-top.

And I still think it applies.

I'm sick of the "Hey look! A little funky robot! Wasn't that neat? Aren't I clever?" moments.

I'm angry because R2-D2 has somehow become Supah Droid, capable of nearly anything. There was tension in 4, 5, and 6 because you knew they weren't really capable of that much, and you were afraid something would happen to them. Now that R2 can destroy two battle droids at the drop of the hat, what tension is left?

Speaking of those *&@$%^&*@$ droids, I just have this to say. WHY do they speak using imperfect grammar? WHY do they run in terror from Obi-Wan? Oh, for that old-time ha-ha effect. What was I thinking.

It was really apparent at the end of the movie that the technology from the first three movies way outstripped the technology from the latter three. When the famous suit was being fitted on Anakin I was thinking, ah, yes, check out the rayon cape! And the buttons on the front of it...so seventies. Heh.

If the movies had been released consecutively, would this movie have been perceived as better, or worse? I have a feeling that the choice would be worse. By going back, the movies are given this extra resonance that they wouldn't have had if they had been released consecutively. We know where it is going, so we have this tremendous feeling of sadness for Anakin. We know what is going to happen, so everything has a deeper meaning. Putting on Darth Vader's helmet has a lot of significance, because we know that he is facing twenty years of living in that suit and being the pawn of his master. Seen without the context of the latter three, I think it wouldn't be as moving.

I'm glad that I saw it in the theater, but I have to say, I was really excited because I thought it was going to be something great, but I felt almost nothing for this movie, except for Palpatine/Vader. I think having seen them will give more insight and depth to the original three, and I'm glad that I have them on DVD. Yes, it has come full circle.

ETA: I forgot to mention how much I hate most of the names. Dooku? General Grievious? bwa hahaha! So ludicrous.

And General Grievious was the stupidest character...why, why, why would he cough? Why did he need to wear a cape? Ugh. No lungs! Nothing to cover! So stupid.

ETA: And why would Padme die of a broken heart like that? It would have made much, much more sense to have her die on the volcano planet as Obi-Wan attempts to save her children. Much more sense. Instead it was silly, really. She didn't seem the kind of woman to just let herself die.

ETA: And why spend all that time working on Wookie costumes to use them for barely five minutes? Why was the Wookie subplot so short?

Comments

[cactus-wren.livejournal.com]

NO HAN SOLO

And there's why I don't need to go see any of them. <3 Han Solo. Seriously, I haven't seen any of them, haven't been overly interested in the Star Wars movies since the originals came out oh-so-long ago. I do have a friend who recently went to see this newest one, and she was very disappointed. In fact, beyond disappointed. She had a lot of the same complaints as you.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Han Solo...I've had a crush on him since the very first moment I saw him onscreen. Fire, zest for living, rogue, oh, he's delicious. And Ford played him so well! Even Luke & Leia had a lot of fire and passion and energy, until Luke became Mistah Jedi. The original cast really went above and beyond the call of duty and made the movies more than what they could have been.

I'm glad you haven't damaged your original appreciation by seeing the new movies. ;)

[mysduende.livejournal.com]

Consecutively best to worst in the sagas entirety: Empire, A New Hope, Return, Sith, Attack of the Clones, Phantom Menace.)

I agree with just about everything you've said here. There is still many ways this film could've truly been 'great' - as all the reviews are touting it right now - and yet it failed on many levels - though not as abysmally as Ep 1 and 2. Of the three in the prequels, Revenge is the only one my mind didn't wander or I didn't feel the overwhelming urge to glance at my watch. And because it got to the heart of the matter and concluded the saga - Anakin's decent to the dark side and the birth of the tragic Darth Vader, many fans do feel more emotionally vested. Partially by default but also because the film was just better than the first two. Honestly, Lucas could've cut to the chase with all his SFX distractions in the first two.


If the movies had been released consecutively, would this movie have been perceived as better, or worse? I have a feeling that the choice would be worse.

By going back, the movies are given this extra resonance that they wouldn't have had if they had been released consecutively. We know where it is going, so we have this tremendous feeling of sadness for Anakin. We know what is going to happen, so everything has a deeper meaning. Putting on Darth Vader's helmet has a lot of significance, because we know that he is facing twenty years of living in that suit and being the pawn of his master. Seen without the context of the latter three, I think it wouldn't be as moving.

Well, of course, what happens in Revenge is what we've all been waiting to see. So, on that level, yes. Though again, judging it against the entire of the three prequels, I think people are saying it's good because in contrast to the other two, Lucas managed to come closer to the core of what the original trilogy was like. Revenge had a similiar dark, fevery pitch like Empire (though to me it just scraps the depth of Empire.) And additionally, everyone acting had gotten a tad bit better than the first two. I think Hayden did give it his all as he's matured a bit (given the corny lines he was dealt with in some scenes), Ian McDiarmid greatly upped the sophistication and complexity of important, key sequences. The two together worked very well together. Since this was the crux of this film, it was a good thing their chemistry worked well together. And personally, I do think Ewan was in top form of channeling Obi Wan. He did carry scenes a lot. Portman and Jackson, on the other hand, still seemed to sound like daytime soap opera actors.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Portman and Jackson, on the other hand, still seemed to sound like daytime soap opera actors.

Those two really annoyed me. Jackson seemed to have just one expression, and it wasn't very convincing. I was unimpressed. Portman is a great actress, but her strength is quirky warmth, which she was not allowed to display at all. I agree with you completely about Ian McD...he was really, truly good in this, and made this movie far more complex and interesting than it could have been. Watching him hook and reel in Anakin was disturbing and fascinating and I couldn't tear my eyes from the screen.

Ewan did a good job, yes, but he was constrained by not having much to work with and that hellish powder job.

I also kept getting distracted by the ludicrous names.

[mysduende.livejournal.com]

Ewan did a good job, yes, but he was constrained by not having much to work with and that hellish powder job.

Heh. I didn't notice that! Don't know why.. I just couldn't stand those cliche, yellow 'teh eval' contacts they stuck on Hayden. They really didn't need to go and do that..

I also kept getting distracted by the ludicrous names.

The names have gotten worse with the prequels. I still can't believe Lucas went with Padme Amidala. Or Count Dooku. oye.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Count Dooku has to be the worst, honestly. Every time I heard that name, I snickered, and it pulled me right out of the movie.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

My mother couldn't remember half of them, so our evening flick tonight featured "Queen Fitchi-fachti," "Darth Saruman," "Darth Sith [Sidious]" and a brief mention of "Why-go In." I still have no freaking clue how she came up with Fitchi-fachti, but find it highly amusing.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

My aunt always thought R2 D2 was "Me 2 E 2" and Chewbacca was "Chewins".

[superbunny3000.livejournal.com]

ya know, i agree, particularly with the bit about NO HAN SOLO. there really wasnt anyone here with a hell of a lot to offer besides overwrought emotion or grim resignation. granted, it was a darker movie, i didnt expect a lot of humor, but something to lighten up all the doom and gloom.

it was Epic doom and gloom, like lord of the rings, but Epic Light. in lord of the rings, the strength of the bonds between the characters was evident, but in star wars, the only relationship that seems believable to me is the one between anakin and obi wan.

the 'romance' between padme and anakin really needed some help. this was supposed to be the love of a lifetime! true love! some powerful stuff so that we feel REALLY bad for anakin when he loses it. instead, i wanted to cry because it was so weak.

it sucks that there has to be such a dramatic divide between Good and Evil characters. it seems that to be properly aligned with the force and Good, you must be dull and passionless and stoic and i think thats kinda sad. villians get to have all the fun.

anakin did go very quickly from zero to killing younglings. i felt sad, but also confused. his motivation could have been built up a lot better.

really, that was the major point of the movie that i didnt like. they did a mediocre job of exploring anakins motives for turning to the dark side. i felt it was too hasty.

overall i did like it though, but not as much as the original three. i agree though, if the movies had been released in order, these would still ahve suffered in comparison to the first three.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

anakin did go very quickly from zero to killing younglings. i felt sad, but also confused. his motivation could have been built up a lot better.

the 'romance' between padme and anakin really needed some help. this was supposed to be the love of a lifetime! true love! some powerful stuff so that we feel REALLY bad for anakin when he loses it.

Absolutely! Instead of feeling bad for Anakin, I was bored. I didn't really get the idea that Padme really liked Anakin that much, honestly. I mean, her role could have been so beautiful, so tragic---we all know what falling in love with the wrong man can do---but it was just...anticlimactic.

I still can't believe that Padme just lets herself "die". Ugh.

Any sort of cocky, lively character would have come in handy, honestly.

[superbunny3000.livejournal.com]

"Any sort of cocky, lively character would have come in handy, honestly."

sadly, not even chewbacca was up to the task. jar jar kept his mouth shut though. i was grateful for that. oh, where are the ewoks when you need them?

ya, and padme just giving up the will to live b/c she was so heartbroken...it COULD have been believable...alas, she wasnt up to it either, apparently.

what a weenie.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

The Wookie subplot was so dull! I really thought they'd have a few more battles. I mean, why make all of those wookie costumes and then use them for barely five minutes? Ugh.

[mysduende.livejournal.com]

The Wookie subplot was so dull! I really thought they'd have a few more battles. I mean, why make all of those wookie costumes and then use them for barely five minutes? Ugh.

Yep, perfect example of how Lucas overdoes when less is more. It really wasn't that necessary that we see Yoda with Chewbacca and his wife. Silliness. Course, I don't know if they had that many wookie costumes, he tends to just CGI everything that is grand scale. It's like those borning clone droids in Ep 2. yaaaaaaaawn.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

That was Chewbacca's wife? Wow, how did I miss that?

[morricone1900.livejournal.com]

don't nobody be mentioning those Ewoks....they are what made me LOATHE the third movie (Episode Six) and almost deterred me from ever seeing a SW film again. when John Williams ended the original grand trilogy with that inane "yub-nub" ewok celebration music, I thought everyone involved with the film must have been on crack.

gen. grievous's terrible cough...

[superbunny3000.livejournal.com]

i wondered about that! it was very distracting...i kept looking for lungs or other squishy bits.

Re: gen. grievous's terrible cough...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

There were no lungs that I could see! Just a shriveled heart. So why would he cough?

Re: gen. grievous's terrible cough...

[gina-r-snape.livejournal.com]

When he died I thought "Oh, look at that. He's died of really bad heartburn!" You'd think he would've taken a better job to protect that little shrively thing than two flimsy metal plates!

I liked the lizard, it had more character than some of the real characters of the film! And I totally agree with you about the switch from Anakin the wanna be Jedi Master to Vader the youngling killer. WTF? Those lines Palpatine used on him were soooo trite. Did he even get a Sith philosophy lesson before being sent off to kill! kill! kill! everyone?

Padme's flat rocked, though. Terrific view.

Re: gen. grievous's terrible cough...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Heartburn!! rofl! That's great...heh.

The lizard was beautifully done, had a bit of a personality, but, logically speaking, I was like, huh? What a horrible ride, it's presumably cold-blooded and can't race like that for long periods of time, etc. etc. etc. I just thought, here we go, spending way too much time and money on a cool effect. If he could have just diverted some of that energy into the dialogue or the acting!

I thought the youngling murder bit was just...ugh. Just too much, poorly done.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

The too many Jedi syndrome = genius!!!!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

ha! Why thank you...it really applied to these movies...

[ms-hecubus.livejournal.com]

I knew I was in for a bad time with the romantic dialogue when Natalie Portman's comment was "I take the fifth".

Lucas said he considered putting Han in, but didn't think they'd find a 10-year-old with the right type of charisma. I can't really say I'm sorry because it would seem like they were just cramming things in, you know?

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Thank goodness he didn't put Han in...I would have cried. He would have mucked it up somehow.

Now, a Han-like character...that might have been interesting!

[ms-hecubus.livejournal.com]

I just loved that Tatooine scene at the end. I've always been madly in love with Luke Skywalker and just melted to see the throw-back to Luke's introductory moment.

I think my love for Luke helped me enjoy Obi-Wan's scenes (not that Ewan wasn't brilliant). Luke's love for Ben is apparent, but this movie helped me see how much Ben did out of love for Luke (and Anakin).

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Y'know, the Tatooine moment was almost enough to make me forgive quite a lot of missteps. Almost. ;)

I am not much of a Luke lover, so I was only somewhat interested in his story. I'm much more into Han.

[ms-hecubus.livejournal.com]

I get the Han scene, but for some reason I've always been about Luke. Even if I could have been swayed, the moment Luke walked into Jabba's palace.... SWOON! The cloak, the black clothing, the calm and power. Luke done growed up good!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was where you really see what a Jedi can do! It was an awesome moment. He was calm and steady, and I was so geeked by that. Then he was completely forgotten as I got all back into the Han-worship.

[gillieweed.livejournal.com]

Ditto!
I was in HS when the orginal came out and rememeber thinking how whiney and annoying Luke was. Han's got to be the best character in the series. Oh, and he shot first!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

YES!! HE SHOT FIRST!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!! <3

[deepforestowl.livejournal.com]

all excellent critiques and I am not disagreeing. I totally didn't get why Padme died of a broken heart either and the wookie thing and a few other things as well. Honestly, I would have much rathered that Lucas made the last 3 films, the 3 that come after Return of the Jedi. It's nice to know the beginnings of Vader, etc, but I would much rather know what happened to the Empire after it fell apart. *shrug*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

*nods in agreement* Absolutely. I'd love to see 7, 8, and 9, but I think he's said now that they will never be. I guess we always have fanfiction...*grins*

It would have been such an easy thing for Padme to die there on the volcano planet, with Obi-Wan helping deliver the babies...I still don't understand why they felt they had to do that. Oh well.

[deepforestowl.livejournal.com]

I could have bought the padme dieing of a broken heart if I felt that the romance and love between anakin and padme was there. They talked a lot about love, but you know, I never got the vibe that they were IN love. blech. I wish he would do 7, 8, and 9. I think they would be far more interesting and I am still pissed off that we didn't get to see Kenobi talk to Qui-Gon! grrr...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yes, a little Liam would have done quite nicely! Mmmmm...

Yeah, I never really thought they were in love either.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

*Hands over Timothy Zahn novels and "Tales of the Bounty Hunters"* Forget Jango, Jaster Marill is where it's at, man.

[morricone1900.livejournal.com]

since I know you REFUSE to put me on your friends list ;) , i assume you haven't read my thread on this same topic:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/morricone1900/37832.html


In certain ways I agree with you wholeheartedly (Ian McD out-acted everyone in the picture, despite having lines that were just as cliched as anyone else's), but in others I can't agree, particularly where Hayden was concerned. He LOOKED good throughout, but his line readings were like he was stoned, except perhaps in that first action scene.

I make an assessment (along different lines) of the comparison between our original band of heroes and tne new bunch in my thread, so I won't repeat it here.

I too was very moved by the setting up of the Tattooine scene and the reproducing of Luke's adopted father standing in front of the same two suns in front of which Luke will later stand, with John Williams playing the same theme in solo french horn.

It's interesting to me -- the guy I went to see the movie with didn't like it as much as I did. I don't feel particularly attached to this movie franchise any more (I was enormously disappointed with Return of the Jedi and loathed Phantom Menace). I was pleasantly surprised to find Attack of the Clones as enjoyable as it was, and I think this Sith picture is easily the best since Empire Strikes Back. But I suppose my expectations were not very high. and when my friend (who saw it with me) talked about some of the illogical things in the movie, which really irritated him, I felt like although I was vaguely aware of the same silly things (Greivous' cough being one of them), they didn't bother me that much because I find the whole saga pretty lightweight and superficial. I can't take any of it seriously, so certain lapses in logic don't matter as much to me as they might in, say, a Star Trek movie where there's supposed to be a little more underlying consistently or logic to the universe of that franchise.

I also am not alone in vehemently believing that Lucas should not have directed these movies...he should have produced and gotten real directors to direct in each case. Yes, we know that in a film world created largely in CGI and through elaborate computer design and post-production, it would be hard to communicate the full extent of his vision to another director. But ANY other decent director would have gotten better performances from this cast, in all three of the more recent episodes. It's not a coincidence that the best film of the entire series, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, also had the best director. Lucas is a producer and writer, not a director. Yes he is a film visionary, etc. etc. -- but don't put him behind the camera when there are actors present, unless those actors can thrive without him. Some, like Ewan and Ian, can do so. But Hayden and Natalie -- that's among the worst acting in any major release in, um....decades? It's not entirely their fault -- after all, they have a director who doesn't know how to make dialogue work or motivate or inspire actors.

I DO think that John Williams has written his finest score in over 15 years here, though.

[morricone1900.livejournal.com]

my Lucas-bashing reminds me of an anecdote I recently heard again concerning AMERICAN GRAFFITI. in an interview about that film several years ago, Ron Howard said that he and the cast were not so much awed by Lucas but by legendary cinematographer Haskell Wexler, who shot the film. this quote reappeared in the media recently because Wexler's son Mark has just released a contentious, warts-and-all documentary about his father.

btw, i can agree (in a general way) about your han solo point. i felt myself missing that level of casualness in this new film. i do think that ewan came about as close to that winning rakishness in this new trilogy as anyone, though of course not in this movie. I didn't really notice the "powder" thing -- I just noticed that his beard looked really fake much of the time and for whatever reason he didn't really even look like himself much. i wonder if he had some kind of skin problem and they had to cover-up his natural facial tone more?

which reminds me (i'm being really stream-of-consciousness tonight!) that part of the weird "maturation process" for Luke Skywalker was definitely the subtle but marked changes to Mark Hamill's face caused by the the automobile accident he had after the first film. not since montgomery clift had a young actor come back to the screen looking so grimly altered by facial damage, no matter how good the reconstructive surgery had been.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Yes, they had to do that attack in tESB in order to make a reasonable explanation for Mark Hamill's changed looks.

The Han Solo element in aNH really makes it fun. It really adds a dash of sparkle. When everyone is standing around speaking in ominous tones for nearly the entire movie I get a bit bored, unless the melodrama is really good.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

since I know you REFUSE to put me on your friends list ;) , i assume you haven't read my thread on this same topic:

But you keep giving me links to the relevant topics, so I don't need to! *giggles*

I can't agree, particularly where Hayden was concerned.

I only said he did a decent job. I mostly felt that he was adequate, and then there were a few points I felt he did a good job...there were a couple moments where I was moved by his acting.

And as to getting a different director? I could not agree MORE. He should have left the reins to someone who can motivate actors. George is so busy with the CG that he doesn't pay attention to the other points, I think.

His "auditions" consist of him pretty much just picking who he wants to do the role and then having a two hour conversation with said person about the weather and the roads, I've heard. No readings.