Brains and conversations

[valis2]

So I've been brooding rather intensely for a few days, and it's brought some focus about my interpersonal conversational skills. Or rather, lack thereof.

I don't think I have ever had a clearer picture of just how much effort it takes for me to converse with people. Depending on who I'm having the conversation with, I engage layers, sometimes multiple layers, of modifiers in my brain to prevent the wrong thing from being said.

By layers I refer to processes meant to take certain things about my conversational partners into account. You could also term them as "filters," but I'm not certain that the word correctly conveys the meaning. I once took a quiz on LJ that claimed my conversational style was called "the Changeling." It was an incredibly accurate result. I am a different person with different people. With bookwench2096 I am sarcastic and absolutely raunchy. With my friends in WI I am less sarcastic and absolutely not raunchy at all.

A few examples of layers:


• Age. Am I speaking to someone young, or old? If so, I'll temper my conversation accordingly. I won't bother with references that either is not likely to get.


• Position. Is this person somehow my superior, or could impact my job or do they know one of my bosses? This layer is so horribly intense that sometimes I end up stammering like an idiot.


• OMG THEY ARE SO COOL. This is another layer that just kills me. It's particularly horrible at a con, for example, when I'm talking to someone really amazing like alchemia, someone I really admire, someone who is super talented. Sometimes I manage to get out something that resembles speech; most of the time I just manage to say something really stupid.


• Customer. Is this person thinking about buying something from me now, or maybe in the future? Another tough layer. I have to weed out anything that might possibly offend.


• Friend of a friend. I'm out to lunch with my sister, let's say, and her boyfriend's best friend. I have to somehow not embarrass both myself, and my sister. A unique kind of pressure.


• I want to say something clever now. Oh, this is the worst, this is the one that just destroys me. It means that I just about completely stop processing just so that I can desperately think of something clever to say. And sadly enough, if I weren't trying to think of something clever, I probably would have thought of something clever.


• Am I interrupting too much? Am I doing something weird with my hands? Am I smiling strangely? Internal questions often push me right over the edge and stop processing dead in its tracks. Especially when I immediately start obsessing over the last hundred conversations and whether I've interrupted too much or done something weird with my hands.

These layers engage to form a barrier to prevent me from hurting someone else's feelings, and they are based upon the person. The more layers that are engaged, the more I start thinking about them, and the more I have to put in intense effort to figure out what I can say, and the less I am actually able to get out that's intelligent and relevant.

So where did these layers come from? Well, my father is definitely where I eventually learned a lot of logic and analysis from. I am not logical by nature, you see. My "logic" is actually just a huge repository of remembered situations (or even remembered stories by other people). If something occurs, I look through my logic bag, and try to see if anything similar has happened to me, or if I've ever heard a story like that. Based on that, I'm sometimes able to formulate the best course. This "logic" also fuels the layers, in a way. I am very thoughtless in my conversations, and my father would often take me aside later and explain which things I'd said that were "wrong" and might have hurt the other person's feelings.

My mother, for example, likes to use self-deprecation to make other people feel better. "Oh, I can't draw at all! I'm the worst artist in the world! I can't even draw a smiley face!" she'll say. I picked this trait up early, and used it quite a bit. However, it backfires, and often. People get really sick of hearing you put yourself down (an ex-fiancée once went into a rage about it), and the worst is when you insult yourself in some way and the other person gets insulted by it indirectly. For example, one time I heard my mother talking about how fat she was and she went on and on about it, and her best friend just sat there with an uncomfortable look on her face, and then I suddenly realized that her best friend outweighs her by at least a hundred pounds. So this is something I've worked very hard to stamp out of my speech. I've also tried to get rid of another thing I picked up from my mother, which is the tendency to say, "I like it," and "oh, I hate that" about absolutely everything that anyone brings up. Hey, it's no problem to say it occasionally, but when you are just making every conversation a litany of your likes and dislikes, you are not really talking to someone. Especially if you're not explaining why you like it or don't like it. Especially if you're simply interrupting throughout the whole thing to say whether you like it or not. I think about conversations I had in my early twenties and I just cringe.

The emphasis on "right" and "wrong" words can be really difficult to get around. I often tailspin into paranoia, certain that someone is avoiding me because of something I've said, or implied, or that I wasn't interesting enough. This is exacerbated by society, in some ways. We are expected to not point out stupidity or insults in our conversations; most people will simply "be polite" and continue talking, and then later laugh about the gaffes to other people. I've done it myself. The problem with this is that I have to then rely on my faulty logic system and my elaborate layers system to prevent these gaffes, and sometimes it's just not possible. And because no one will tell you when you've really made a gaffe, I am left to imagine gaffes where there are none.

Of course, when I am certain about a real gaffe, it makes me cringe in a way that is pretty extreme, and I can beat myself up like nobody's business about it. I go back over old conversations, and I pull out flaws and magnify the stupid things I've said until I cannot understand why anyone would want to be friends with me, much less even talk to me. It's rather extreme, and usually I'm able to take a deep breath and slip off to the side of it. Sometimes, though, I sit and stew for a day or two, and this entry is the result of that. Just trying to understand the issues involved with this is helpful.

For me, online communication is a huge relief in some ways, and a new kind of fail in others. The layers are a little confused, especially at first, by this situation; I have no visual cues to set the proper layers in place, for example. I have no idea if I'm talking to rich, poor, young, old, the Pope, whatever. But I have the advantage of having time to think things through before I post them. I can check my words for double meanings that I didn't notice when I first thought of them. This eliminates a bunch of gaffes. Honestly, I'm terrible at subtext most of the time. The unsaid and unseen can flummox me. Nonverbal cues are not as obvious to me as they are to most, though I do still see them sometimes. So being online and having a little extra time, and not having the layers all pressing down at once screaming "DO NOT OFFEND HER! SAY SOMETHING CLEVER NOW NOW NOW!" is helpful, but then again, I still have to work very hard to avoid saying the Wrong Thing.

Please don't look at this as "Now I have to reassure Valis that she is not an evil bitch from another galaxy and that I like her" situation. I'm serious. This is me trying to know myself, and sharing the process, and hoping to hear of your own conversational styles and experiences.

Comments

[mingbutterfly.livejournal.com]

Aww, sweetie, this was funny and a bit heartbreaking because I do like you very much IRL! Of course, we all think some of these things some of the time... Had a couple of thoughts.

No one is really thinking about your conversation as much as you are (they're thinking about their own)! If you demonstrate basic kindness in your actions, people will put a positive spin on what you say because they'll assume (quite rightly) that you mean well.

Second, in-person conversations are about 75% patter, melodically and culturally pleasing pauses, questions, sympathetic nods. Think of it as learning how to dance. Listen to conversations around you by socially adept people, and you'll pick this up fast. It's not that you're being disingenuous, in fact people are comforted by familiar conversational rhythms, and a conversation is really more about being with the other person than saying something in particular.

Anyway... that was enough of a ramble to make me worried about offending you! Hahaha. ;)

Hope you are doing well!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Aww, sweetie, this was funny and a bit heartbreaking because I do like you very much IRL! Of course, we all think some of these things some of the time... Had a couple of thoughts.

*hugs* Yeah, I'm quite certain that this entire thing is indicative of being human in general. hee! Thanks for the sweet words.

No one is really thinking about your conversation as much as you are (they're thinking about their own)! If you demonstrate basic kindness in your actions, people will put a positive spin on what you say because they'll assume (quite rightly) that you mean well.

Very wisely spoken, and very smart words, indeed!

Second, in-person conversations are about 75% patter, melodically and culturally pleasing pauses, questions, sympathetic nods. Think of it as learning how to dance. Listen to conversations around you by socially adept people, and you'll pick this up fast. It's not that you're being disingenuous, in fact people are comforted by familiar conversational rhythms, and a conversation is really more about being with the other person than saying something in particular.

Once in a while I say something in a very funny way that isn't really funny--and people laugh and then kind of go, wait, what? You're totally right--it's about the tone, the up and down of the voice, the movements, etc. And sometimes I just don't have a handle on those things!

Anyway... that was enough of a ramble to make me worried about offending you! Hahaha. ;)

LOL! ;)

Hope you are doing well!

Oh yes, it always helps to put things like these into words--that is one of the best ways for me to work through things, honestly.

[marginaliana]

This is a really interesting topic. For myself, basically there are two truths about my conversational tendencies:

1) I'm actually really opinionated, bossy, and a bit judgmental
2) I have created in myself a strong reluctance to express my opinions to others

When I was a teenager, I was one of those people who thought, "god, I'm right, and the person I'm talking to is an idiot" all the time. And truth to tell, a lot of the time I still feel that way. But the problem is that being right doesn't get you points in some universal scoring system, and in fact insisting that you're right all the time loses you friends. So somewhere along the line I decided "right, just try and get along." So I've gradually taught myself to suppress, suppress, suppress, and now I'm at the point where I find myself hedging before I say anything, and agonizing about whether I've made an ass of myself afterwards.

In some ways, I think I'd like to try and find more of a middle ground, be able to be more honest and/or care less about what other people think. I don't know how I'd go about doing that, thought.

And like you, I think that online communication is a mixed blessing. On the one hand, there's having the leisure to think more about what I say before I say it. On the other hand, the lack of contextual clues and tone can be a problem. And there's the part where everything you say is on record permanently after you say it, so if you fuck up, you can never pretend it didn't happen. D:

Yes, fascinating stuff!

[droxy.livejournal.com]

I am your 1, and my 2 is i dont care what tohers think, not too much.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting topic. For myself, basically there are two truths about my conversational tendencies:

1) I'm actually really opinionated, bossy, and a bit judgmental
2) I have created in myself a strong reluctance to express my opinions to others

I am so with you on both, actually. One of the layers I have automatically pulls back on any attempt to disagree with anyone I am talking to--well, except for Husband, lol!

So I've gradually taught myself to suppress, suppress, suppress, and now I'm at the point where I find myself hedging before I say anything, and agonizing about whether I've made an ass of myself afterwards.

I cannot nod enough in response to this. I have such a fear of verbal gaffes, and I often employ fierce filtering in an effort to stave off the dreaded Conversational Regret.

And there's the part where everything you say is on record permanently after you say it, so if you fuck up, you can never pretend it didn't happen. D:

*shudders* That scares me more than anything, honestly!

*hugs* Thank you for commenting!

[droxy.livejournal.com]

don't think too much on it, people will like you or they don't...

[valis2.livejournal.com]

heh. It's impossible for me not to obsess, lol!

[little-tristan.livejournal.com]

How about, if Valis is an evil bitch from another galaxy, no wonder I like her, because we're obviously from the same planet? You totally explained why I have no real life friends. I think even my sister hates me (and I *know* her husband does). And that whole not embarrassing your friend in front of her friend--no one introduces me to anyone anymore.

Mein Gott, I love the internet. While still sitting around worrying for hours, and I mean staying up nights obsessing, about why one person doesn't comment on stories anymore, of if someone took something I said three weeks ago in the wrong way. Or even if my username is offensive. Because, you know, when it's on the internet it's there for good. Even this. *meep* (Apologies to my sister, who may not hate me, and may be offended by the implication.)

This is why I seldom invite friends anymore. I don't want people to feel obligated to enter the Stupid Zone and then put up with my ridiculous (raunchy, pornographic, depressing, deathfilled) drivel. My only comfort is, I'm pretty sure none of my friends are secretly the Pope. Now that would be fatally embarrassing.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

How about, if Valis is an evil bitch from another galaxy, no wonder I like her, because we're obviously from the same planet?

The planet of the Loud Geeky Mouthy Girls Who Have Foot-In-Mouth Syndrome And Are Totally Obsessed With Fictional Characters? lol!

While still sitting around worrying for hours, and I mean staying up nights obsessing, about why one person doesn't comment on stories anymore, of if someone took something I said three weeks ago in the wrong way. Or even if my username is offensive.

ONE THOUSAND TIMES YES. I am so damned CONSUMED with comments and counts. And my rational mind knows damned well that it has nothing to do with anything but the little squeaky part of my brain sits and counts and counts and squeaks. It was never as bad in HP because there are just so many who can comment, but in Riptide? There are so few that anyone not commenting kind of stands out and then I feel sad. lol.

This is why I seldom invite friends anymore. I don't want people to feel obligated to enter the Stupid Zone and then put up with my ridiculous (raunchy, pornographic, depressing, deathfilled) drivel.

I can't talk on the phone anymore. If it rings, I cringe, because I just don't want to go through that. I do have one friend who talks to me all the time, but other than that, I'm just not up to it. Yeah, you can say it, I'm a control freak. lol!

[catsintheattic.livejournal.com]

When I'm afraid or convinced that I've said/done something stupid, I can fret over this situation for days to years. But when I realise that I'm fretting, I usually try to stop myself after I've exhausted the practical analysis. There is a point where self-improvement can turn into self-torture.

I found that in a lot of situations, it's quite easy to clarify ambiguity by asking, and by telling the other person that I ask because I try to understand. It saves a lot of the agony of being nervous about doing something wrong.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

When I'm afraid or convinced that I've said/done something stupid, I can fret over this situation for days to years. But when I realise that I'm fretting, I usually try to stop myself after I've exhausted the practical analysis. There is a point where self-improvement can turn into self-torture.

Hells yes, and I am exquisitely good at self-torture. I can make it last and last. For years. Dave Barry (a writer in the States) had one piece where he talked about how his brain liked to pull out awful memories and "fondle" them. When I read that, I was absolutely and completely nodding in total agreement.

I found that in a lot of situations, it's quite easy to clarify ambiguity by asking, and by telling the other person that I ask because I try to understand. It saves a lot of the agony of being nervous about doing something wrong.

Yes, but in my case, I often don't realize until it's too late. Plus, a lot of my interactions are with customers whom I will never see again, and my worries about offending them will go on and on and on. For years, sometimes.

Most of the time I can shrug it off. Once in a while, though, it crawls under my skin and is completely impossible to remove.

[logospilgrim.livejournal.com]

The conversation we had during Lumos is one of my fondest memories; it was so pleasant to chat with you, most beloved. Indeed, every time I glance at your locket in my potions cabinet, my heart warms at the memory of our exchange.

My conversation style usually features a lot of emming and ahing and long silent INFJ pauses as I try to figure out what I am rambling about, and/or how to put my thoughts into words, and I pray that I do not speak hurtful nonsense. I ask God, "put Your seal upon my heart and my mouth." I try not to worry too much :-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

The conversation we had during Lumos is one of my fondest memories; it was so pleasant to chat with you, most beloved. Indeed, every time I glance at your locket in my potions cabinet, my heart warms at the memory of our exchange.

Aw, that really warms my heart! I absolutely love speaking with you and listening to you speak; you really are so incredibly articulate and fascinating.

My conversation style usually features a lot of emming and ahing and long silent INFJ pauses as I try to figure out what I am rambling about, and/or how to put my thoughts into words, and I pray that I do not speak hurtful nonsense.

hee! Anytime you pause, you know I'm going to fill the space with a lot of silly stuff...*grins and hugs*

And I can't imagine that you would ever say anything hurtful. Much less nonsensical. Trufax.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

This is fascinating! And also sounds really normal, which makes me wonder if I do the same thing.:-)

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hee! I'm glad it interested you. I wasn't certain if it would make sense to everyone, but at least to get it out there made it a little easier for me to understand it. And knowing is half the battle, lol...

[saruwatari.livejournal.com]

For me, online communication is a huge relief in some ways, and a new kind of fail in others. The layers are a little confused, especially at first, by this situation; I have no visual cues to set the proper layers in place, for example. [...] But I have the advantage of having time to think things through before I post them. I can check my words for double meanings that I didn't notice when I first thought of them.

THIS. SO MUCH THIS. Gah, so much of this whole post makes so much sense to me.

You know, I don't really have any RL friends, and I blame it on my inability to converse. I'll be perfectly honest and admit that I don't enjoy spending time talking about things like, well, the cute thing someone's kid did last night or how so-and-so saw so-and-so with so-and-so and isn't he married anyway, but really, if I knew how to respond properly in conversation, I'm thinking I could more easily find people with whom I have things in common and can connect on some level.

Even IMing is often too much for me. It's not face-to-face, and therefore I can type and re-type until something sounds right, but there's still some degree, of, well, "instant" to it. Talking to someone I've never IMed before, even someone I know from LJ and love to death, is nerve-wracking beyond all belief. Some of the best conversations I've ever had have been back-and-forth in LJ comments over several days, really.

So. I am not going to do the pity thing and pet you on the head and say omg but you're awesome (even though you are, in fact, awesome) because I know that's not the response you want, and I also know that getting that response can be kinda insulting when you're honestly just trying to talk things out that are in your head. I will, however, say that I totally get where you're coming from, and oh god, you're so not alone in it. It's kinda funny how many of us have such issues socialising offline.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

THIS. SO MUCH THIS. Gah, so much of this whole post makes so much sense to me.

Y'know, it's interesting to me how many people are commiserating with me on this entry--honestly, it's not like I thought I was a speshul snowflake or something, but I really didn't think people found conversation that ugh-inducing.

Then again, we are all living on the internet here in LJ-land, so I'm probably preaching to the choir here. heh.

if I knew how to respond properly in conversation, I'm thinking I could more easily find people with whom I have things in common and can connect on some level.

Yeah, that's exactly it. I love talking to people I know really well, because I know what to say. New people? INSTANT HIVES. I don't even want to find out if we have anything in common. I just want to not make an ass out of myself and then get out of the situation. lol.

Talking to someone I've never IMed before, even someone I know from LJ and love to death, is nerve-wracking beyond all belief.

WORD. I often have dizzifying moments when I think about pinging someone. Seriously. Those first few convos make me so crazy. IMing is such a stylized form of communication, and it relies even more heavily on knowing what the other person's intent is, which makes it even harder for me to understand.

So. I am not going to do the pity thing and pet you on the head and say omg but you're awesome (even though you are, in fact, awesome) because I know that's not the response you want, and I also know that getting that response can be kinda insulting when you're honestly just trying to talk things out that are in your head. I will, however, say that I totally get where you're coming from, and oh god, you're so not alone in it. It's kinda funny how many of us have such issues socialising offline.

Thank you a thousand times--you totally get it. Partially it just helps to know I'm not alone, because that can help take some of the nervous edge off. But yeah, I'm really happy to read the comments and find out what other people do and think. That's the best part of this.

Thank you SO much for the sweet words and helpful comment--I really appreciate it! You are totally awesome, my friend. *giant hugs*

[seraphina_snape]

Huh. Doesn't everyone base their responses on their conversational partner(s)? Maybe I don't obsess about it the way you do, but I certainly don't talk to my parents the same way I talk to my brother; I don't talk to my brother the same way I talk to my friends and I don't talk to friends the same way I talk to acquaintances or colleagues or strangers. Successful conversation means that you need to take into account who you're talking to, doesn't it?

~ sera

PS: If you do discover that the Pope has a secret LJ, please let me know. *g*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I think people do modify their conversation based on their partner, but I think that sometimes I really go a little too far. And I get so wrapped up in talking to that person that I just start to obsess over saying the "right" things and it's rather a silly spiraling thing that often robs me of the pleasure of conversation. Especially if it's someone I want to impress somehow--or at least not appear stupid in front of. lol.

I think the part that really gets to me is how intense the effort can be. I think, should I really be working this hard in a conversation? Isn't this pretty much effortless for most people?

And if I find the Pope's Sekret LJ, I'll totally PM you. ha!

[ms-hecubus.livejournal.com]

If you look at my interests lists I have something like 'going filterless' listed. It should be 'living filterless' because I make a real effort to put forth the real me. I used to try and try to fit in but I never really got it. Even when I thought I was coming off normal people would tell me I'm weird. I finally decided that if I'm weird I might as well put it all out there. For some reason it works for me.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I admire that, and I wish I could do it. Then again, I think such weird and mean things on a regular basis that it probably wouldn't be a good idea for me, lol.

I do think, though, that it might be nice if I could rely on people to tell me when I've offended them. But I don't think that will happen, except in the really obvious blunders. :(

[dbassassin.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much the exact opposite: I appear to have very, very few filters. Mmmm... maybe two:

1) do I know this person through personal or professional life? If the latter, make a decent effort to cut down on the swearing; and
2) do I trust this person? If yes, it's anchors aweigh, and all flags flying: obsenities, unpopular opinions, self-absorbed ramblings, gossip, all-too-frequent interruptions and general braying ass-ness all 'round. If not, then I generally keep the conversation to the classic niceties: the weather, movies, etc.

I should be more concerned about the impression I make on other people, especially in the workplace and related environments. I'm crippled by an upbringing that valued honesty (well, my mother's particular form of brutality that she referred to as 'honesty') and it's been a hard habit to break.

I applaud your efforts to keep the other person's sensibilities to the forefront; this evidences a basic decency that is all too rare these days. But I wouldn't obsess about it; if nothing else, a friendly nod indicates to the other person that you're interested and encourages them to keep talking. Which will earn you a reputation for being thoughtful; never a bad thing. :D

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Ooh. Interesting filters! I think that I definitely drop the layers, just like you're saying, when I have a trusted friend or I'm talking to Husband.

I should be more concerned about the impression I make on other people, especially in the workplace and related environments. I'm crippled by an upbringing that valued honesty (well, my mother's particular form of brutality that she referred to as 'honesty') and it's been a hard habit to break.

See, my mom was much more into being super super nice to whomever was in the room. She might be angry about them after they leave, but while they're in the room, she's going to fire the niceness bullets on all cylinders.

I applaud your efforts to keep the other person's sensibilities to the forefront; this evidences a basic decency that is all too rare these days. But I wouldn't obsess about it; if nothing else, a friendly nod indicates to the other person that you're interested and encourages them to keep talking. Which will earn you a reputation for being thoughtful; never a bad thing. :D

heh. Now if I can just stop interrupting everyone...lol!!

Thanks for the comment, m'friend!! I do hope we'll see each other at a con again--that was too much fun.

[privatemaladict.livejournal.com]

Is it weird that this post makes me wish I could have a real conversation with you? I'm just curious about what it's be like!

[valis2.livejournal.com]

hahaha! Well, it isn't too much like talking to an alien...*snort*

Hopefully one day we'll find out! I'm still so bummed I couldn't meet up with you on your trip in the States. :(

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

I think most women do that put yourself down thing somewhat. It's a HARD habit to break.

Oh, and when skinny women bitch about how fat they are in front of me I want to punch them.

Also, I will love you forever. You sent me chips.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I think most women do that put yourself down thing somewhat. It's a HARD habit to break.

Totally. I'm still not done breaking it. I might never be done.

Oh, and when skinny women bitch about how fat they are in front of me I want to punch them.

Same here. Or at least dunk them in butter.

Also, I will love you forever. You sent me chips.

Imagine if I'd sent you chips you actually liked!

[todayiamadaisy]

Of course, when I am certain about a real gaffe, it makes me cringe in a way that is pretty extreme, and I can beat myself up like nobody's business about it. I go back over old conversations, and I pull out flaws and magnify the stupid things I've said

Oh, lordie, this. I shudder to think of how much of my life I have wasted pointedlessly recalling every tiny mistake I may have made.

Conversation is a nightmare for me. Give me paper & pen (or computer & keyboard) and I can be intelligent and witty, but face-to-face I'm tongue-tied and hopeless. I could never go speed dating. :-) I have a few people in my life who consider themselves to be great communicators: they'll talk to anybody and jump right in and ask really quite intense questions right from the start. And I find that really difficult to deal with; it's kind of interesting how these great communicators don't (or can't) see how uncomfortable it makes me. So I envy their ability to talk easily, but I'd also like them to take a step back every now and then because some of us find dealing with others a bit stressful at the best of times.

My personal tic is about eye contact. I want to look at the person talking to show that I'm listening, but I don't want to look like Freaky Stary Person, so I look away. But then I have to look back to show I'm listening, so it starts again. It's a wonder I ever hear anything.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, lordie, this. I shudder to think of how much of my life I have wasted pointedlessly recalling every tiny mistake I may have made.

Dave Barry (an American writer) once said that his brain likes to take out unpleasant memories and fondle them. Mine does, too.

I could never go speed dating. :-)

hahaha! Me either! I would collapse in a puddle of unhappiness by the end of the third interview. Seriously.

And I find that really difficult to deal with; it's kind of interesting how these great communicators don't (or can't) see how uncomfortable it makes me. So I envy their ability to talk easily, but I'd also like them to take a step back every now and then because some of us find dealing with others a bit stressful at the best of times.

For work, I have to have lots of conversations with lots of strangers about lots of stuff. It can get nerve-wracking, though over time I've kind of developed the answers so it isn't as bad. I can really talk to anyone, but the problem is, I'm shaking in my boots, and it takes such an intense effort to maintain it!

My personal tic is about eye contact. I want to look at the person talking to show that I'm listening, but I don't want to look like Freaky Stary Person, so I look away. But then I have to look back to show I'm listening, so it starts again. It's a wonder I ever hear anything.

Oh yes, I always worry about eye contact! Am I staring too much? Too little? grah!!

[vanityfair00.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda surprised to read this, you always have seemed like a very warm and friendly soul here on LJ. I never would have guessed you worried so much about your social interactions.

I seem to be quite the opposite from you - I'm always talking to people with very little anxiety. I love to tell stories and make people laugh. I really considered standup at one time. For me I'm okay with putting myself out there and doing dumb and potentially embarrassing things because that only means that I will have a hilarious story later if something goes wrong. I remember being in this incredibly awkward and embarrassing situation at a hotel and the next day I went out with and old friend, her boyfriend, and a new colleague from work. I shared the embarrassing situation with them and we all had a good laugh at my expense but the new colleague told me she couldn't believe I had told anyone about it. She would have been way too embarrassed to have admitted her mistake to anyone. Me, on the other hand, couldn't imagine not sharing it because after the fact it was really funny. At the time I was mortified but that's how I got over it, by making it into a joke. My self deprecating comes after the fact in that way I guess.

I do worry sometimes about talking too much. I always try to not dominate the conversation and make sure I'm asking questions about the other person. And my mother told me once that I sometimes sound condescending so there have been times when I'm in a training situation at work where I worry about that, but on a day to day basis I'm pretty chatty. It actually frustrates me that I can't chat more or at all with the cashiers and other people that I see all the time in my town in Japan, but alas my Japanese is not so hot. Real anxiety sets in when I have to have conversations in Japanese and I'm not sure the other person has any English ability or patience to deal with a foreigner.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda surprised to read this, you always have seemed like a very warm and friendly soul here on LJ. I never would have guessed you worried so much about your social interactions.

Aw, thanks!!

Y'know, with fandom people it's generally not so difficult. There's a commonality among fans, there's just something about us--and those of us who choose to blog and live an online life--that seems to really unite us in a way, and provide a base to work from. But random people on the street? eeee! People I work for? double eee! I just can't seem to get a sentence out. Or I misinterpret what they're saying.

love to tell stories and make people laugh. I really considered standup at one time. For me I'm okay with putting myself out there and doing dumb and potentially embarrassing things because that only means that I will have a hilarious story later if something goes wrong.

That's amazing. I've been told by close friends that I'm funny, and I do tell some stories occasionally, but the thought of getting up and doing standup just doesn't work for me. I think I could almost do it, but there's a problem with my humor--it's often based on what other people are saying, which means that it doesn't translate well to me just standing alone. And I really have no problem sharing most embarrassing things, if they're funny.

I do worry sometimes about talking too much. I always try to not dominate the conversation and make sure I'm asking questions about the other person. And my mother told me once that I sometimes sound condescending so there have been times when I'm in a training situation at work where I worry about that, but on a day to day basis I'm pretty chatty.

Oh, I totally worry about talking too much! I constantly interrupt people, too. *headdesk* I generally talk quite a bit, but at my core, I'm piling the layers on and really hoping that I'm not appearing like an ass.

It actually frustrates me that I can't chat more or at all with the cashiers and other people that I see all the time in my town in Japan, but alas my Japanese is not so hot. Real anxiety sets in when I have to have conversations in Japanese and I'm not sure the other person has any English ability or patience to deal with a foreigner.

Oh, that must be rough! I always wonder how you get along with that. I mean, when I visited Italy, so many people spoke English that it was literally a non-issue. But wow--having to deal with communication issues AND another language---eee!

Thanks for the comment, sweetie!! *hugs*

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

Really interesting post. Hurrah for learning to know yourself better! :P

I was a Very shy child, but have been reasonably outgoing and comfortable chatting people up for years now. Conversation is *definitely* based on who I'm talking to, though! I still stumble and bumble in conversation, but--that advice about being kind & people will proceed with the idea that your intentions are good--I think it works, certainly. My social anxiety is pretty low, really, and I'm very thankful for that. :D

I've found myself less interested in banal party conversations, though. You know, at weddings, housewarmings, birthdays: How do you know the host/bride/groom? What do you do [read: tell me how you feed yourself]...this one has annoyed me more since joining the Burning Man community, where there is so much emphasis on taking the commerce and the cash out of it, and giving gifts, & not expecting reciprocity. So it kinda seems like an obscene, What kind of car do you drive/how big is your statusdick question. Not that I deal with that sort of person very often, but when I do...
(Which I imagine you can relate to as a freelancer!)

I do love being able to more carefully craft sentences online, and have multi-day LJ threads of conversation.
I also love that I can meet and connect with people who have social anxiety! ;p

Also, I recall with great fondness and smiles our conversation in the dealers room in Chicago. Not the content so much, as the atmosphere, of joy, and connection, and smiling at squiddies. :P

*HUGS*

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I was a Very shy child, but have been reasonably outgoing and comfortable chatting people up for years now. Conversation is *definitely* based on who I'm talking to, though! I still stumble and bumble in conversation, but--that advice about being kind & people will proceed with the idea that your intentions are good--I think it works, certainly. My social anxiety is pretty low, really, and I'm very thankful for that. :D

I was extremely shy, introverted, and moody until I got to my high school years, and I realized that I needed to change and become more outgoing and extroverted or I'd be teased for the rest of my life. So even though I am mostly outgoing in a crowd, I am still kind of shy underneath.

I've found myself less interested in banal party conversations, though. You know, at weddings, housewarmings, birthdays: How do you know the host/bride/groom? What do you do [read: tell me how you feed yourself]...this one has annoyed me more since joining the Burning Man community, where there is so much emphasis on taking the commerce and the cash out of it, and giving gifts, & not expecting reciprocity. So it kinda seems like an obscene, What kind of car do you drive/how big is your statusdick question. Not that I deal with that sort of person very often, but when I do...
(Which I imagine you can relate to as a freelancer!)

I hate the question of "what do you do" because it's just so complicated, and the answer is not socially satisfying, ever. I just can't stand trying to explain it. Sometimes I just tell them about my day job and leave it at that, depending on how I know the person.

I do love being able to more carefully craft sentences online, and have multi-day LJ threads of conversation.
I also love that I can meet and connect with people who have social anxiety! ;p

Oh, TOTALLY! I love that all of these textually-minded people can band together online and have all sorts of awesome conversations. squee!!

Also, I recall with great fondness and smiles our conversation in the dealers room in Chicago. Not the content so much, as the atmosphere, of joy, and connection, and smiling at squiddies. :P

That was so much fun! You really are luminous and adorable, you know that? It was great hanging out with you. :)

*giant hugs*

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the self-deprecation: bad. Try to slay this little monster. It isn't good for you! :P

I also suffer from the very common malaise of the Western World [& especially the US, as far as I can tell]: Nice Girl Syndrome.

Trying to please too much. Not good! It drains us! We must fight back! ;p

But, seriously. Bad. When I broke up with my man, self-deprecation was a BIG part of it. When you keep talking shit about yourself, people might start to believe it eventually. ;(

This is a category where fake it till ya make it is great advice: having self-confidence, and being unafraid to show it, is quite powerful. & Sexy. :P

*hug hugs hugs*
♥

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the self-deprecation: bad. Try to slay this little monster. It isn't good for you! :P

It's so hard! Just when I think I've got the little bastard on the run, it pops up again. grrr.

Trying to please too much. Not good! It drains us! We must fight back! ;p

OH YES. I know this well! I know how insidious this is, how it makes you turn yourself inside out.

This is a category where fake it till ya make it is great advice: having self-confidence, and being unafraid to show it, is quite powerful. & Sexy. :P

It definitely is! And often, it's self-fulfilling.

*moar hugs*

[drusillas-rain.livejournal.com]

Sometimes when I read your posts, I swear you're my brain twin. Maybe not twin exactly, but I've been thinking about this topic lately because I feel like I never know how to react to a new situation I've never experienced or read about and need to look to someone else to tell me how to react (in a what am I supposed to do/feel/say kind of way).

Maybe what I mean is kindred spirit ^_^

I try not to do it as much anymore, but when I was younger I used to completely change my persona based on the other person. A lot of this had to do with the fact that I grew up in a household where I never knew if my parent (who has a mental illness) was going to have a good day or a different day. I learned to read people from an early age and am exceedingly good at it, so moulding myself was easy. Nowdays, I try not to do that, and I'm still working on bringing out my true me. I credit a fandom with a lot of that - I've met and interacted with some fantastic people online, and when meeting IRL it's ok to still be the same me.

(Although I've botched a few IRL meet-ups at conns because I've been all "omg I luv you and I'm so absolutely frozen I can't think, but now you think I'm a cold bitca because I barely talked")

Um, oops, I've just hijacked your post to talk about me O.o But this was cathartic and helpful.

♥ ♥ ♥

[valis2.livejournal.com]

Sometimes when I read your posts, I swear you're my brain twin. Maybe not twin exactly, but I've been thinking about this topic lately because I feel like I never know how to react to a new situation I've never experienced or read about and need to look to someone else to tell me how to react (in a what am I supposed to do/feel/say kind of way).

Oh yeah, I am so the same! If I've never been in the situation before, I'm completely flummoxed. Even later, when I realize or someone mentions the obvious course, it's like a huge epiphany.

Maybe what I mean is kindred spirit ^_^

Aw, that rocks! I can think of no finer person to be kin in spirit to. ;)

I try not to do it as much anymore, but when I was younger I used to completely change my persona based on the other person. A lot of this had to do with the fact that I grew up in a household where I never knew if my parent (who has a mental illness) was going to have a good day or a different day. I learned to read people from an early age and am exceedingly good at it, so moulding myself was easy. Nowdays, I try not to do that, and I'm still working on bringing out my true me. I credit a fandom with a lot of that - I've met and interacted with some fantastic people online, and when meeting IRL it's ok to still be the same me.

I have to put on different personas to deal with different situations, such as going away for a month, which is really stressful and traumatic to me (I'm a HUGE homebody). So I'll just put on this workaholic get-through-it persona and slog through it so I don't think about home and how much I miss it. I do love fandom for the same reason--I feel like it's my truer self that's brought out, and that I can relax in ways I don't in other situations.

(Although I've botched a few IRL meet-ups at conns because I've been all "omg I luv you and I'm so absolutely frozen I can't think, but now you think I'm a cold bitca because I barely talked")

Oh god, yes. I was completely crazy at the Snarry meetup--so many awesome people! grah! Shutdown! Shutdown!

Um, oops, I've just hijacked your post to talk about me O.o But this was cathartic and helpful.

Um, that was exactly what I wanted! I love hearing about other experiences with these issues. Seriously!!

*giant hugs*